Roller furling sail choice?

[pillum]

I've always used hank-on foresails in the past, partly because that's what I'm used to, partly because I think they're more efficient, and partly because of the cost of change. Now I'm doing a refit, and had to trash the old sails because of storage damage, the need to replace, as well as not being so keen to work the foredeck in a blow now that I'm getting older, leads me to replace with a furling system.

My sailmaker suggests a No1 Genoa and a No2 Genoa, with the No2 being used whenever high winds are threatening due to it's better efficiency in reduced sail mode. It sounds logical to me, but I'm also considering a combination of a No2 on the furling, and a cruising chute with sock for light airs. I figure that if I'm a cruising man now and retired, I'll be doing more downwinding or reaching than beating.

Any thoughts?

[skipmac]

Hi Pillum,

Went through a similar decision making process when I bought my boat but a few different details.

Boat is cutter rigged and came with a high cut Yankee, a big, light drifter/reacher and self tending staysail. The drifter was great in very light air on a reach but anything towards the wind the boat performance was poor. I decided to go with a 135% roller furling jib since I could effectively roll that up to around 100% and then go to the staysail if the winds picked up more.

I still have the old yankee that I could use for extended strong winds like your plan with the two jibs, but have one concern about that. My furler does have double tracks so I can hoist a second sail behind the first and then drop the first. However if I am at the point of needing the smaller sail how will I roll out the full 135% jib to do the sail change without overpowering the boat? I think if winds aren't too strong and I run downwind, maybe blanket the jib some with the main then it shouldn't be a problem but haven't had the chance to try it yet to see.

So my question is what happens changing from the #1 to the #2 when the winds are already blowing?

Would be interested in other's experience with a similar system.

[barnakiel]

If there is only one furling forestay, I would go with a relatively small (max 110%), flat, mid-weight furling jib with a foam luff. I would place the kite on a furler too. I have used both socks and furlers and I find furling easier. Dousing by hand is easy too when your technique is there. With the right furling kit, the kite can be swapped any time for another kite. This way you cover all light winds at all angles (if there be any light winds where you sail).

If you can have and internal forestay (even better if this be a cutter forestay) then there is where you will fly your (touch wood) storm jib: small, heavy'ish, flat, high clew and tall, hanks.

Cut and paste according to whatever winds dominate in your area.

I am not clear what your sailmaker means by No2 genoa. They do not expect you to swap them on the furler, do they? Or do you have two forestays?

b.

[Jim Cate]

I don't think you can do an inside-out sail change on a furler because the upper swivel must come down with the old sail, and the new sail prevents that happening.

Jim

[bailey49]

Originally Posted by pillum

I've always used hank-on foresails in the past, partly because that's what I'm used to, partly because I think they're more efficient, and partly because of the cost of change. Now I'm doing a refit, and had to trash the old sails because of storage damage, the need to replace, as well as not being so keen to work the foredeck in a blow now that I'm getting older, leads me to replace with a furling system.

My sailmaker suggests a No1 Genoa and a No2 Genoa, with the No2 being used whenever high winds are threatening due to it's better efficiency in reduced sail mode. It sounds logical to me, but I'm also considering a combination of a No2 on the furling, and a cruising chute with sock for light airs. I figure that if I'm a cruising man now and retired, I'll be doing more downwinding or reaching than beating.

Any thoughts?

On our 44' Nordic we have roller furling on the foresail and hanked on for the cutter sail. Rather than use a full on spinnaker we use an asymmetric in a sock. Agree that having a second track on the furler is a great idea so you change change sails easily. We have currently being using our #3 genoa which is a 100, our #2 is very heavy and good in strong wind, can be furled to 100.

[hamburking]

Where I live, its windy most days. So I prefer a smaller sail on the furler...like a 110% at most. If the wind is light, I can alway just go slow, or run the engine. But when the wind is big, thats when you want a good small sail up there. Also, be sure to have plenty of clearance from the deck to the foot for visability. I had a real decksweeper, and it was a lot of trouble seeing under the sail for approaching boats and marks.

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I don't think you can do an inside-out sail change on a furler because the upper swivel must come down with the old sail, and the new sail prevents that happening.

Jim

I was thinking you'd need two halyards but didn't occur to me about the upper swivel, duh!!!! What good is the second slot in the furler extrusion?? Doesn't seem that you could use it except to start a new furling sail up in the 2nd slot with original sail lowered but still in its slot. Guess you could raise a sail that you wouldn't furl on a spare halyard. Might have some use for a light drifter or a storm sall that would only be used in special conditions and dropped when the windspeed changes.

One thing, actually about the only thing I like about hank on sails is the ease with which you can hank the sails on. Raising a new sail in benign conditions at the dock on a furler is not the easiest thing in the world. Even with a pre-feeder, the sail constantly hangs and requires someone to go forward and take care of a hockle. Fortunately haven't had to make a sail change at sea in adverse conditions on the furler. Figured I'd just roller reef the heavy weight 130% sail till was it furled and then hoist the Gale Sail storm jib over the furled sail.

[pillum]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Fortunately haven't had to make a sail change at sea in adverse conditions on the furler. Figured I'd just roller reef the heavy weight 130% sail till was it furled and then hoist the Gale Sail storm jib over the furled sail.

I like this idea.

[Stu Jackson]

I have a 110 for winter lighter air and an 85 for heavy summer air here on SF Bay. I have a ProFurl reefer/furler but never reef either of my jibs.

Here's an interesting discussion about jib sizes:

A very illuminating and interesting discussion on co.com for those of you who might be in the market for a new jib.

Big Jib or Small Jib - SailboatOwners.com

Please read all three pages. Enjoy.

[Cheechako]

It depends on where you are going ...... local? world cruising?
Long cruising I like about a 110-115% on a cruising cutter. A little high cut but not a Yankee.
This allows use of the head sail when the winds pick up some. After that the Staysail does great in maybe 28knots and up.
But if the boat gets down to 4 knots or a little less... I turn the engine on anyway!

[El Pinguino]

I have a #1 and a #2..... decide at the start of the passage what is more appropriate and then live with my decision.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I have a #1 and a #2..... decide at the start of the passage what is more appropriate and then live with my decision.

I could never guess right so I added a second furler.

[Rigger Bruce]

Most roller furlers will have the ability to be used partially rolled up. A sail with a foamed luff will take out the bag in the jib when the "reefing" of the genoa starts. I would get a genoa with a step downed sail cloth and a foam luff. The sail when rolled all the way out(say a 150% genoa would have lighter sail coth in front and gradualy get heaver in weight(oz.) as you roll it up, so when the sail is rolled up for strong winds the sail has the strongest material out pushing the boat , taking the starin. You may need to change the lead block as you furl to get the best proformance out of it.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I don't think you can do an inside-out sail change on a furler because the upper swivel must come down with the old sail, and the new sail prevents that happening.

Jim

This is correct - recipe for a tangle. We are cutter rigged ketch so lots of options. We have hard flat 135% for the #1 genoa - high cut so that the cars do not need to be moved as we ease to reach. There are two forestay tracks but I would only fly a second sail there for downwind, poled out. Our genoa is too large to take down/change or bag so our only options are to douse it and fly the cutter. Our genoa is padded at the luff to permit it to retain a useful shape partly furled but I thing this is bad for any sail.

The Cutter stay sail is small, hard, flat & simple. The head is at the 2nd spreader and the stay is parallel to the forestay. Also roller furling with two tracks.

Main is in-mast roller furl as is the mizzen.

We carry a really monster AS spinnaker in a sock. It is too heavy to haul on deck so I hoist through the port or stbd cabin hatch at the mast. I fly it as an AS with the pole well forward and down or blocked from the bow. Alternately, I may fly it traditionally on the pole and pull the clew aft. 10 Knots apparent is our max before this thing is dangerous to douse (two old farts).

We also fly a code zero from a sock. This is a really nice option and much lighter than the kite. It is basically a flat spinnaker; 150% 3 oz sides & reinforcing with 1.5 oz body.

In the case presented by the OP I might suggest a double headstay. These could both be roller furl or possibly one furler & one hank-on. Alternately, add a cutter stay. Note, however, that a cutter stay will probably require you to at least partly furl to tack. We found that our genoa will not tack due to the various stays.

Take a sail maker or two out for a ride and discuss it. Most of these guys have seen stuff we-all have not.

[Getweh]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I don't think you can do an inside-out sail change on a furler because the upper swivel must come down with the old sail, and the new sail prevents that happening.

Jim

DITTO - forget doing a peel when using your furling system.