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22-09-2022, 11:10
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 589
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Re: Regulations For Stowing Gasoline - Portable
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor
That is the problem with Google - lots of useful information, but lack of context and foundation for what is found.
We lawyers always check the scope of application of a law and/or regulation, and all the applicable definitions to understand to whom or what it applies.
This regulation appears to apply to vessels subject to inspection and regular periodic certification. I doubt that applies to recreational vessels. While we are subject to inspection, there is no required certification.
I am not a maritime lawyer, but I believe this applies only to vessels subject to the Jones Act - vessels that are used to transport goods or passengers.
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Not only that, but as previously posted, 46CFR 182.458 specifically prohibits the use of portable fuel tanks on those vessels except for with outboards and portable dewatering pumps. For the purposes of 46CFR 58.50 portable fuel tanks are not "fuel tanks" within the scope of the regulation because they are not allowed. And that is stated very clearly a bit higher up in the section.
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26-09-2022, 08:58
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 122
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Re: Regulations For Stowing Gasoline - Portable
Not specifically on point to the question at hand, but the responses raise a good point that should be kept in mind when researching Federal laws and regulations regarding vessels. Always check the "applicability" and definitions articles of the regulations or statute (which sometimes requires going back some way in the chapter or section). There are differences in the requirements for recreational vessels, uninspected commercial vessels, inspected vessels, etc. Sometimes a Google search brings up what appears to be the answer to a question, but when you dive deeper it doesn't apply to your situation/vessel. For example, the 46 CFR 182.458 prohibition on portable fuel tanks mentioned is a Subchapter T regulation which applies to small passenger vessels, not recreational boats generally. Similarly the term "inspection" when used in Titles 33 and 46 of the CFR means formal inspection by the CG and not that vessels generally are "subject to inspection" by law enforcement (e.g. CG compliance boardings).
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26-09-2022, 11:54
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#18
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Tartan 3800
Posts: 5,412
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Re: Regulations For Stowing Gasoline - Portable
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhinnc
It so happens the regulation that pertains to carrying the portable gasoline containers onboard are in the environmental laws of U.S.A. The Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) has a 'sister' so I learned, the eCFR. So Craig, without hesitation, provided me with this, which specifically addresses the intent of my original question: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-3...-183/subpart-K
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For every complex question, there is an answer that is simple, elegant, and wrong.
Subpart K doesn't apply to most cruising sailboats, because cruising sailboats don't usually have gasoline engines. See §183.601.
__________________
The best part of an adventure is the people you meet.
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26-09-2022, 16:32
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 122
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Re: Regulations For Stowing Gasoline - Portable
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhinnc
It so happens the regulation that pertains to carrying the portable gasoline containers onboard are in the environmental laws of U.S.A. The Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) has a 'sister' so I learned, the eCFR. So Craig, without hesitation, provided me with this, which specifically addresses the intent of my original question: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-3...-183/subpart-K
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The regulations in Title 33, Subchapter S of the CFR are not "environmental regulations" but rather pertain to boating safety. I fail to see how these regulations apply to portable fuel containers. As has been mentioned before, it does not appear there are any specific Federal regulations regarding them.
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27-09-2022, 21:16
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: USA
Boat: Island Packet 29
Posts: 341
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Re: Regulations For Stowing Gasoline - Portable
I keep my Honda Generator in the cabin. I dont even smell it at all. Ive store diesel lots of time in the cabin. Gasoline cans I would not. Too much boom-boom risk for me.
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28-09-2022, 08:06
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Maine
Boat: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Posts: 3,372
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Re: Regulations For Stowing Gasoline - Portable
Here's one for the legal eagles:
What's the definition of a portable gasoline tank?
I'm curious because, when I was a kid, we had six-gallon portable tanks for our outboards. I was led to believe that was the maximum allowed to still be considered portable. These tanks had handles and weren't considered "fixed" fuel tanks. Powered ventilation was not required if they weren't kept in an enclosed space.
Likewise, you could buy six-gallon "home use" portable tanks at the hardware store, for things like filling lawn mowers.
Then suddenly the largest non-outboard tank I could buy was five gallons. They still sell (I think) the six-gallon outboard tanks with handles, so clearly they're still legally considered "portable."
For a few years there were a handful of states where you could still buy the six-gallon home use tanks, and I bought four of them in 2007 or so. But I haven't seen them anywhere since.
I've always wondered what happened. What do they think we're going to do with that extra gallon?
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28-09-2022, 08:11
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,952
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Re: Regulations For Stowing Gasoline - Portable
I don't think they actually prohibited the 6 gallon cans. It seems like the manufacturers have standardized on metric sizing, so the "5 gallon" cans are often 20 liters (which is really about 5.3 gallons).
As far as outboard tanks, I see portable ones with handles as big as 6.6 gallons (25 liters). Others are 6 gallons even.
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28-09-2022, 08:49
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 10,930
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Re: Regulations For Stowing Gasoline - Portable
Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin
I don't think they actually prohibited the 6 gallon cans. It seems like the manufacturers have standardized on metric sizing, so the "5 gallon" cans are often 20 liters (which is really about 5.3 gallons).
As far as outboard tanks, I see portable ones with handles as big as 6.6 gallons (25 liters). Others are 6 gallons even.
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And others are 3 -3.1 gallon tanks for the smaller outboards.
Then you can buy the 2.5 gallon plastic no spill jugs as backup
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28-09-2022, 08:51
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,952
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Re: Regulations For Stowing Gasoline - Portable
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225
And others are 3 -3.1 gallon tanks for the smaller outboards.
Then you can buy the 2.5 gallon plastic jugs as backup
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Yup. And those 2.5 gallon jugs are often 10 liters, so the full mark is usually closer to 2.65 gallons.
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28-09-2022, 08:55
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 10,930
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Re: Regulations For Stowing Gasoline - Portable
Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin
Yup. And those 2.5 gallon jugs are often 10 liters, so the full mark is usually closer to 2.65 gallons.
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Yeah but I never fill them that high just in case because when I refill the 3 gallon tank I have to turn the thing almost upside down.
When filling the integral .3 gallon tank it's much easier.
I usually use this most of the time and the external tank only for longer distance motoring or motorsail runs
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28-09-2022, 14:23
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Maine
Boat: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Posts: 3,372
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Re: Regulations For Stowing Gasoline - Portable
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225
...Then you can buy the 2.5 gallon plastic no spill jugs as backup
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Those "no spill" spouts seem to gurgle, splash, squirt and spill more than the old-fashioned spouts. So I just buy the regular spout and vent kits on Amazon and retro-fit the new "CARB" jugs so they pour properly without spilling.
It's a moot point for me anyway. I have a lifetime supply of portable gas tanks so they can regulate anything they want on the new ones.
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28-09-2022, 14:34
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,952
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Re: Regulations For Stowing Gasoline - Portable
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTom
Those "no spill" spouts seem to gurgle, splash, squirt and spill more than the old-fashioned spouts. So I just buy the regular spout and vent kits on Amazon and retro-fit the new "CARB" jugs so they pour properly without spilling.
It's a moot point for me anyway. I have a lifetime supply of portable gas tanks so they can regulate anything they want on the new ones.
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Some of the modern spout designs are terrible, but the No-spill branded push-button ones are pretty good. I wish they'd dispense a little faster, but they flow smoothly and they're easy to avoid making a mess with.
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