Recommendation request: bluewater cruiser models that would meet our needs?

[redhead]

I agree that the Whitby 42 is a good solid boat with room for the 3 of you. However, it's an East Coast boat and I've not seen one out here in the PNW.

As far as room for provisioning goes, I thought the same thing when we moved aboard almost 7 years ago. What I've found out is that wherever you stop for whatever reason there will be food. It may be a brand you're not familiar with, but isn't that part of the romance of travel - trying something new? If it's really exotic you can ask someone local how to prepare it. But I've found whether in Mexico or upper British Columbia I've never been unable to find something I'm familiar with.

Take a look at Beth Leonard's book The Voyager's Handbook. I believe she has a whole chapter on provisioning on their circumnavigation. It may help you.

Either way, good luck to you - let us know how it works.

[Scorpius]

Where are you?

[MJH]

Originally Posted by pillowfort

Hi there! I'm so happy to have found this site. It's been a wealth of information so far.

We're shopping for a bluewater cruiser and I hoped you folks might be able to tell me what to keep an eye out for.

Some information about our requirements:
- Ideally ~45ft (+/- 3ft); there are 2 adults, my 10yo son, and our cat
- Two cabin (both need to have a door)
- Currently torn between sloop or ketch, either could work
- Slight preference for stability over speed--we would still like to be able to arrive at our destinations, of course
- Manageable for a couple to sail (perhaps with the assistance of some upgrades--though we don't want to be totally reliant on that)
- Good amount of stowage for food and spare parts/maintenance supplies. We'd like the freedom to explore, and not be always worrying about the next resupply.
- Planning to add a modest watermaker, but would still like to have at least 100g water tank.
- A smaller fuel tank might work out okay? We're not in a hurry to maintain a strict schedule, but obviously don't want to be caught in the wrong area during cyclone/hurricane/typhoon season!

We're hoping to spend around 60-100k on the boat itself, with a solid refitting buffer beyond that. Some we can do ourselves, some we won't attempt (rigging is one that comes to mind).

What makes/models should we keep an eye out for? We're on the west coast (PNW), so makes that are more common out here are especially helpful.

Thanks so much for any insight you can provide! We appreciate it.

The fact that you are looking for a used boat means that you will be subject only to those boats that are on the market. So, any recommendation on specific makes and models will be purely coincidental.

One of the first rules of a boat search is that there are tradeoffs, no boat is perfect. Starting with a list of non negotiable wants will most likely result in no boat or, at best, one you cannot afford. You must be flexible in deciding what is most important. Saying that your boat must have two cabin doors, without further reasoning, is one example.

The second rule of a boat search is to get out of the house and start looking at all the boats you can until you are sick of looking...then you must look some more. Over time this will tell you what is available and what the current market prices are. To consider boats outside your local area opens up a long list of additional issues and costs that will be incurred...to do that you must be certain as to the make and model you want.

Out of curiosity I ran a search of my database of 4,233 sailboats, sorted on LOA 42-48, Capsize <1.8, and Comfort (based on your desire for stability) and came up with 345 boats but that says nothing about cost, tankage, storage, cabin doors or availability in the Pacific Northwest...see what I mean! You must invest your time into the search to find the boat you want particularly since your wife is also involved. Make it a family fun thing with perhaps weekend outings to the brokerages and don't forget craigslist and other private listing sources like 48North.

I was very particular in my search for a bluewater sailboat I could afford and it took five years. It has served me well.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by pillowfort

Thanks for your thoughts there! We're looking for a liveaboard, and the 42' sailboat we saw yesterday definitely wouldn't be big enough for our needs--we would've been lucky to fit two weeks worth of food on it. No idea where we would've stored tools or spare parts. ....

Where are you located/looking to keep the boat?

What 42' boat did you look at so we can gauge what your parameters might be?

Tayana V42 might work for you but I am very biased.

[Time2Go]

I’d start by looking at the boats for sale on
this forum and
the OceanCruisingClub.org
website
As others have mentioned
don’t get hung up on make and model
Condition is the Key
Another suggestion would be to
take a course on Diesel Maintenance
and a course on DC electrical systems
Check out the various on line resources to get a clue
Pacific Yacht Systems has a bunch
Cheers
Neil

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Emouchet

if you are not in a hurry, you may wait 1 to 2 years and get a brand new bullet proof off-shore sail boat, with modern consideration:
https://www.morganscloud.com/2021/04...-adventure-40/

Not on OP's budget. He's in the same class I am - large, old, comfortable and slow for less than 100K.

[pillowfort]

Originally Posted by MJH

One of the first rules of a boat search is that there are tradeoffs, no boat is perfect. Starting with a list of non negotiable wants will most likely result in no boat or, at best, one you cannot afford. You must be flexible in deciding what is most important. Saying that your boat must have two cabin doors, without further reasoning, is one example.

Okay, sure: my reason for wanting two cabin doors is that:
1) I like to be intimate with my partner
2) My 10 year old will discover masturbation at some point in the near future and we'll be on a boat when he does, and I'm sure he'll appreciate some privacy.

Didn't really feel like that was an appropriate justification to share in an internet forum, but... hope that clears things up? We are going to be on the boat for years, Poseidon willing.

[pillowfort]

Originally Posted by waterman46

Not on OP's budget. He's in the same class I am - large, old, comfortable and slow for less than 100K.

Haha, you're not wrong there. I'm looking at a Beneteau First 42 at the moment for around 80k that seems like it's been well maintained and might fit the bill?

[pillowfort]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Where are you?

Seattle

[pillowfort]

Originally Posted by redhead

As far as room for provisioning goes, I thought the same thing when we moved aboard almost 7 years ago. What I've found out is that wherever you stop for whatever reason there will be food. It may be a brand you're not familiar with, but isn't that part of the romance of travel - trying something new? If it's really exotic you can ask someone local how to prepare it. But I've found whether in Mexico or upper British Columbia I've never been unable to find something I'm familiar with.

Take a look at Beth Leonard's book The Voyager's Handbook. I believe she has a whole chapter on provisioning on their circumnavigation. It may help you.

Either way, good luck to you - let us know how it works.

Thank you for that perspective--we definitely love trying new things. Maybe I got too fixated on youtubers who were complaining about grocery store prices in the south pacific. Adventure and exploration is what we're looking for, at the core--with all the fun and challenges that'll go along with it. I'll definitely check that book out out.

[Statistical]

45ft+ seems unlikely on your budget especially if you insist on a "bluewater" boat (that term means 20 different things to 20 different people). Around 45 ft is going to take a bit of luck and a motivated buyer. 48 isn't going to happen.

I would echo the statements about cheap boats (for their size) not being cheap. Now there are some benefits of fixing up your boat. You can make it how you want. You can know the job is done right (well if you do it right). You get some choices in equipment and component replacements/upgrades. All that may lead you to be confident in your boat but you almost certainly will not save any money in fact it is very likely you will end up paying significantly more than just buying a boat in as good of a condition as you can find.

At your proposed budget moving down in size is likely going to work out better. Either that or save more. I would also say that with limited sailing experience 45+ ft is a lot of boat. Certainly doable but maybe not ideal. Best thing to do is look inside a lot of boats. Almost to the point you are sick of looking at boats. There is no perfect boat but looking at a good number might point you towards the boat with the compromises you can accept.

Hylas 44 might work they are usually dual cabins checks most of your boxes but in good shape likely going to be over $100K.

[TrentePieds]

Pillow:

Many boats have been suggested above, and, having read your requirements with some care, I make bold to add one more to them:

SailboatData.com - RADIANT 48 (ROBB) Sailboat

Arthur Robb's Radian't is not a boat that you will find in the used market, nor would it be within your stated budget if you could indeed find one. It is, however, useful as a benchmark establishing what is desirable. On the basis of that you can begin to reduce your requirements.

You can do that preliminarily by consulting that same site for the specifications and arrangement drawings of any boat you may consider, including the many that have been suggested here. You will find that if you do that, your discernment as to feasibility and desirability will grow rapidly.

I suggest you read the contribution made in posts above by AnnCate and by CarstenB. Both have considerable experience crossing oceans, and, more importantly from your point of view – so your stated desiderata tell me – experience of living aboard for prolonged periods.

Perhaps you might like to consider this: The total “floor area” of the sole in a boat like Radiant is about 250 square feet as opposed to the floor area of a very small 2-bedroom apartment which might be about 750 square feet. The interior volume of the little apartment will be about 6,000 cubic feet, and that of boat about 2,000 cubic feet. But note, please: A LOT of that volume is contained in lockers that are not habitable! On both parameters, even quite a big and luxurious boat, clocks in at a third of a small apartment, though you should probably count on the space in which a human body can actually move below decks in the boat being only about TENTH of what it is in a small apartment! Clearly, then, as Carsten points out, you may have to reduce your list of things to bring, i.e. you may have to revise your expectations. Drastically. That is, IMO, best done by means of diligent budgeting!

Therefore I would suggest that as a useful exercise you work up a meal plan. I find that two weeks' worth of daily menus is sufficient. That the same dish is put under my nose two weeks after the last time I saw it is perfectly fine with me. When you have a built the meal plan, deconstruct it. List all the ingredients for each dish along with the quantities of the ingredients required. Now, but not before, will you know how much stowage you need for the ship's larder. Provisioning for a long voyage then becomes a simple matter of multiplication. A ten week voyage (say six weeks anticipated, four weeks extra for safety's sake) will then be the basic provisioning list times 5. It's really that simple. Now you are no longer “taking a stab”. Now you KNOW.

In respect of everything you, as (intending) skipper, will have to do and be responsible for, you need to develop the habit of structured, linear thinking. To “plan your work and work your plan”, as the shoreside saying goes. Nothing less will do because the safety and welfare of your family – and the cat – will depend ENTIRELY on how well you've done your planning!

For example: What is your rationale for the 100 gallon potable water tank? Are you expecting your water maker to break down? In days of yore, in days of wooden ships and iron men, the emergency ration of water was half a pint per man per day. 100 gallons is 1,600 half pints. That's the emergency ration for 3 people for more than 500 days, i.e. a year and a half!! It won't take you that long to either fix the water maker or reach port! So here is one desiratum you can safely review. Make a “water budget” just like you lay a meal plan. And while you are at it, lay a “power budget” - a budget for the electricity you will use. And for where you will get it from.

You might also like to make a reasonable estimate of what proportion of your time aboard you will spend on passage, what proportion of time you will spend “on the hook” and what proportion of time you will spend alongside where mains power and water will be available right there on the pontoon to which you are moored.

You can do all that sort of “brain work” in complete isolation from considerations of what make and size of boat you desire. The choice of boat is DEPENDENT on how you make you choices in regard to these sorts of “budgets”. And that in turn is dependent on where you will be sailing. And how competent a sailor you wish to be.

Ultimately, it is wise to remember that it is competent skippers that take boats safely across oceans – it's NOT the boat that takes the skipper across oceans. Most modern fibreglass production boats can be taken across oceans. Provided skipper knows his business :-)

All the best

TrentePieds

[lefttheoffice]

Originally Posted by pillowfort

Thanks for your thoughts there! We're looking for a liveaboard, and the 42' sailboat we saw yesterday definitely wouldn't be big enough for our needs--we would've been lucky to fit two weeks worth of food on it. No idea where we would've stored tools or spare parts.

Perhaps that varies from design to design? We definitely want two cabins with doors that shut, and so far I haven't seen any sub 40ft boats that fit the bill there.

The long term goal is to someday circumnavigate, so we'd like to find a boat with which we can feasibly do so, with upgraded rigging and the like.

To be clearer on the financial side: we have 60-100k for a boat; could spend 50k or so to refit it if needed. Additionally, we will substantial savings that we don't plan to touch, and reliable income that should comfortably cover routine maintenance and monthly living expenses (we won't be spending every night at a marina, but that isn't what we want anyway).

My fear is that if we spend 150k on a boat, we'll still end up discovering *it* needs 50k of refitting. We could afford that if we had to, but I'd rather not.

We have some experience sailing; we're taking ASA lessons and getting practice via charters. This'll be the first we buy. We haven't ever crossed an ocean, but we know we love the sea. I grew up on an island and spent my childhood boating miles offshore (and scrubbing decks XD). My partner is a seasoned sea kayaker. So far, my kiddo loves being out as much as I did as a kid.

Look at Sailing project atticus on youtube. They just reviewed 5 0r 6 boats in your size range. They did it with a broker and gave great details. Good Luck

[Scrimshaw4]

The best way to determine the total cost (purchase plus upgrades) is to have the boat surveyed. Other wise you could get a $70K that needs $100K vs a &125K that only needs $15K. If you don't have enough to get what you need right now then wait and save for the one you can afford that meets your use criteria. Also understand that it is a sellers market right now and prices are inflated due to COVID. JMHO

[SeaStory]

The thing about a $150k boat needing $50k of refit is you find out much of that in the survey stage and decide whether to renegotiate or walk away. The survey often misses something, but it should keep you from major surprises (I mean finding our anchor locker rotted out was a bit of a shock, but I have never seen a surveyor take all the chain out to inspect the locker itself). Be sure you find the surveyors in your area that the sellers and dodgy brokers hate. Heck, if you can figure this out now, it would be a decent way to filter out brokers to find one that would be best to work with you. If they say something about that guy being too picky, they are probably more interested in closing a deal than helping you get the right boat.