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Old 19-05-2019, 16:20   #31
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

Have a Beneteau Cyclades 51.4. Converted 5 years ago to an owners version by combining the two bow cabins to a massive king size bunk. Not bad seen every little and big rock in the Carib . On the way to Trinidad from StCroix. It is the boat for these waters
Out here I trust my Boat. NOAA, my garmin And myself. My Bene crossed recently st croix to saint james in 4hr 15’. Not bad I say
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Old 19-05-2019, 16:48   #32
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

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Originally Posted by UFO View Post
So after searching for a cat for my family to live on and seeing quite a few I have come to the conclusion that I should go with a mono-hull - Budget has been spanked by a sh*t housing market (Perth Australia) and by the Aussie Dollar collapsing - I am looking for a VAT paid boat in Europe.


Looking for a Blue Water Cruiser 48-54' with a minimum of 3 Cabins that is a quality build and on the easier side to short hand - Up to around USD$300K.



Should I avoid any of the following for build/quality reasons:


Bavaria
Moody
Beneteau
Jeaneau
Hanse
Dufour


Also any recommendations for quality boats to look at would be appreciated
A lot depends on what you intend to do with your boat.
PM me. I went through all these issues before commencing cruising 13 years ago.
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how long has this been going on and why wasn't I told about it earlier.....
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Old 19-05-2019, 19:01   #33
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
yeah, might be tough, especially your location... but searching takes time...
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...owse%20listing
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/49191
It's good that you edited your initial selection in order to find 2...though neither meet the OP's live aboard spec, but that aft cabin on the Taswell looks awesome.

Cheers!
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Old 19-05-2019, 22:32   #34
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

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Originally Posted by Fbfisher View Post
With a $300K budget for 48’-54’?!?! Show me some examples please.

Cheers!

Not looking for New! Yachtworld brings up 340 sailing boats - Europe, 48-54' US 200K to 315K
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Old 19-05-2019, 22:34   #35
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

Thanks for all the answers everyone
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Old 19-05-2019, 22:46   #36
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

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Don't buy one built by Ikea ..... oops, I mean Hanse.
Unless, of course, you happen to adore modern Scandinavian design, then do by a boat built by IKEA ... oops, Hanse.

P.S. After being a bit scared due to all the internet stories, I was amazed at how almost totally perfect our boat was after being handed over to us. We did a 500 nm trip from Greifswald to Finland and here is the list of faults:

1) Two lights in the kitchen are wired wrongly so it was impossible to turn them off without turning all lights off at the master switch.
2) The AIS/VHF range was just about 1nm or so. Some installation person had forgotten to tighten the mast antenna connection so I tightened it and now it works.
3) A small piece of the B&G plotter outer plastic frame is damaged. Will be repaired later.
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Old 19-05-2019, 23:09   #37
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

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I wouldn't rule out VAT free yachts, since if they are sold in Europe then VAT will be payable by the vendor as part of the sale. This might increase the price slightly but means you get a VAT receipt for the future, so not a concern.


Good luck.

I was not aware of this - I thought the Buyer Paid the VAT - Thanks
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Old 19-05-2019, 23:18   #38
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

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Not looking for New! Yachtworld brings up 340 sailing boats - Europe, 48-54' US 200K to 315K
For this budget you can buy an Amel.

These are purpose built bluewater boats. All fittings and systems are of the best. Lots of well planned storage. Quite fast, actually. And they do not loose their value like the mass production boats.

Maybe not so flashy, but the Amel yard knows what makes a good cruising boat.
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Old 19-05-2019, 23:43   #39
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

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Originally Posted by UFO View Post
Bavaria
Moody
Beneteau
Jeaneau
Hanse
Dufour


Also any recommendations for quality boats to look at would be appreciated
The answer to your question is no, you don’t need to exclude any specific maker for build quality. What you need to do is get a good survey on the specific boat you are looking at. Of your list, my experience would put Moody and Dufour fractionally towards the top of the list, Hanse and Beneteau at the bottom, but still this will vary with individual models.
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Old 19-05-2019, 23:46   #40
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

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I was not aware of this - I thought the Buyer Paid the VAT - Thanks
Kind of. VAT will be added to the price agreed, and that VAT element is payable by the vendor back to the government. But the purchaser has paid that money to the vendor first. On the other hand, since you know this you can negotiate the price taking it into consideration.

You will, however, be competing with other potential purchasers who will only be paying the vat-free price and sailing off. They will be offering a better deal to the vendor.
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Old 20-05-2019, 02:35   #41
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

The reality is all of the brands you mention successfully circumnavigate the world. If your not heading to high latitudes and you maintain the boat well you most likely will have no major problems.

I see all boats having issues regardless of type, there's no particular brand that I've seen having more issues than others. I've been travelling with an Amel 54, tayana 52 and a beneteau 473 for the last 8000nm, we are all fixing something when we arrive in a port and no particular boat seems to fair better than the others.

BTW just a little side note, of the boats I mentioned above you many assume the Amel 54 is the most sea worthy (and it maybe) BUT it actually has the lowest Bal/Disp of all four boats, it has a bolt on keel like the the bene and catalina, it's keel is cast iron where my catalina is lead, it has deck step masts like the bene/catalina, it's rigging is less substantial than my catalina, it has inmast furlers etc........ now I don't say this to put it down or say it's not a great boat, IT IS and I'd have it in a heart beat,...... my point is some of the opinions thrown around may not always be investigated thoroughly before being said as gospel.

Is the Tayana the most seaworthy of the 4? Maybe, but it's old and has age related issues that the others don't.... like a leaking fuel tank (age related) you can't get out without cutting the boat into bits.

The reality is all get to the anchorages safely.
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Old 20-05-2019, 02:43   #42
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

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The reality is all of the brands you mention successfully circumnavigate the world. If your not heading to high latitudes and you maintain the boat well you most likely will have no major problems.

I see all boats having issues regardless of type, there's no particular brand that I've seen having more issues than others. ......
Which brings us to the true definition of cruising: Fixing your boat in exotic locations.
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Old 20-05-2019, 02:47   #43
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

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Which us to the true definition of cruising: Fixing your boat in exotic locations.
I was telling thus to a young girl that arrived to crew on another boat yesterday.

I also gave her one more definition regarding passage making "long stretches of boredom punctuated with moments of terror".... lol.
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Old 20-05-2019, 02:58   #44
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

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Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
BUT it actually has the lowest Bal/Disp of all four boats, it has a bolt on keel like the the bene and catalina, it's keel is cast iron where my catalina is lead, it has deck step masts like the bene/catalina, it's rigging is less substantial than my catalina, it has inmast furlers etc........
.
Low B/D is of advantage for a cruising boat, makes for a more comfortable ride. Has little to do with seaworthiness.

There is one outstanding aspect of Amel, that is watertight integrity, probably next to a good firefighting system, the most important safety feature.
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Old 20-05-2019, 03:17   #45
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Re: Production Mono's - Any to avoid?

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Low B/D is of advantage for a cruising boat, makes for a more comfortable ride. Has little to do with seaworthiness.

There is one outstanding aspect of Amel, that is watertight integrity, probably next to a good firefighting system, the most important safety feature.
Not questioning that the Amel dosent have some excellent sea worthy features such as the water tight bulkheads you mention or that it's not a great boat to cross oceans with.

I think you have a hard sell trying to convince people that a lower bal/displacement ratio is desirable for a "bluewater" boat.

For the record I'm not nessacarily saying that those numbers in real life are as important as made out, I've had a full keel boat with a 48% bal/dis ratio and in my opinion it was a pig that rolled outrageously down wind. My point was a number of expensive boats like the Amel 54 share similar attributes to boats like the bene 473 that cop alot of slack regarding not being a bluewater boat BUT here we are, a Amel 54,a tayana 52, a Catalina 470 and a beneteau 473 that have all crossed the Pacific, Indian and Atlantic oceans successfully...... so which ones aren't seaworthy bluewater boats?
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