Potential Buyer Asking for a "Test Drive"

[Attikos]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Or are you trying to claim some technicality...

Actually, what I was trying to do was to get the idea across to readers who may be interested that getting a written statement of agreement you're free to call a contract if it pleases you isn't the automatic coverage for risk many believe it to be. I think, now, that should be my last post on this subject, given this thread is devolving into the usual chat waste of time, so if you'd like to put in the last word go right ahead.

[Bob Morane]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

No need to speak to a lawyer. I deal in contracts all the time, including lawyers who review the terms. A signed sales agreement is a contract every day of the week.

Or are you trying to claim some technicality...like a contract is an agreement between two parties and the written signed paper document is just documenting the agreement. If that's the case, have fun playing with technicalities but for all practical purposes, the signed agreement is a contract.

I wish I had as much trust in written contracts as you do.
I disagree and I think there are multiple ways to get away with not honoring this kind of contract.
Identity theft or swiftly moving overseas being two examples that comes to mind where pursuing and getting your money back isn't realistic and no authority will actually bother to do anything for you.

And even if you are in a position to go to court to get a deposit back, who actually wants to waste time and money doing that ?
What if, by the time you win your case, the seller is unsolvable and despite having the law on your side, there is no money for you to get back ?

Of course I am biased as I am on the buyer side, but the way I see it, a seller asking for a 10% deposit to ensure I do not waste a few hours of his time is not a "fair" symetrical commitment.

He asks me to put on the line months to years worth of savings and potentially a whole heaps of trouble and he put on the line a few hours of his time.

Use of an escrow agent, a broker or compensating the owner directly for his time and deducting it from the price upon purchase are all acceptable solutions to me.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

More not reading my posts. I have never asked for a sea trial or a test sail. Never been offered either, come to think of it. I have grumbled over beers, and here on the forum (but never to a broker) the real challenge a buyer has in how to learn about how a particular boat behaves underway -- but that's a grumble about reality, not a complaint about sellers.

The whole point of this thread is about buyers asking for test drives. If you aren't doing something related to the thread...why post?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Attikos

Actually, what I was trying to do was to get the idea across to readers who may be interested that getting a written statement of agreement you're free to call a contract if it pleases you isn't the automatic coverage for risk many believe it to be.

I'm free to call it a contract because it is a contract.

Is it 100% perfect always works...certainly not. People break contracts all the time and sometimes it's not worth the trouble to pursue all legal remedy that the contract provides.

But there is no question, it gives you a far stronger position than a vague verbal contract and will head off a lot of silliness because most people won't sign or hand over a deposit if they aren't serious and if they are caught trying to play games, they are far more likely to back down if you can point to the place where they agreed in writing.

I've had my butt saved at work enough times by putting it in writing that I will stand by my statement every time.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Bob Morane

I wish I had as much trust in written contracts as you do.
I disagree and I think there are multiple ways to get away with not honoring this kind of contract.
Identity theft or swiftly moving overseas being two examples that comes to mind where pursuing and getting your money back isn't realistic and no authority will actually bother to do anything for you.

And even if you are in a position to go to court to get a deposit back, who actually wants to waste time and money doing that ?
What if, by the time you win your case, the seller is unsolvable and despite having the law on your side, there is no money for you to get back ?

Of course I am biased as I am on the buyer side, but the way I see it, a seller asking for a 10% deposit to ensure I do not waste a few hours of his time is not a "fair" symetrical commitment.

He asks me to put on the line months to years worth of savings and potentially a whole heaps of trouble and he put on the line a few hours of his time.

Use of an escrow agent, a broker or compensating the owner directly for his time and deducting it from the price upon purchase are all acceptable solutions to me.

There is no perfect system but a written agreement is a lot more solid than than a vague verbal discussion. Could they take the money and skip town...sure but if you go in with eyes wide open and take a little effort to vet the seller (same as the seller is vetting the buyer), it's a low risk. If you aren't feeling comfortable, there are alternatives to protect yourself.

If 10% is years of your savings...I'm a nervous seller as there is a very real chance you can't afford the boat in the first place but even offering to put a $500-1000 deposit down will often be sufficient if it doesn't come across that you can't afford the boat. The idea is most tire kickers won't want to tie up any money but a serious buyer ready to buy if the sea trial/survey are successful won't mind tying the money up because it's likely to change hands shortly anyway. Not disproportionate at all.

If you really are tying up years worth of savings to put a 10% deposit down, you should use an escrow account no matter what (even if you are buying as-is with no sea trial/survey) as you have no margin for error that doesn't leave you destitute.

[Capn Jimbo]

Originally Posted by syPhilos

213 Posts in on a buyer asking for a sea trai / "test drive" ...

I'm just wondering what the response was to the email?

I was just about to post the very same question and post the very same quote... thanks for saving me/us the trouble. Cruiser's Forum - and many others - often suffer similar and relatively useless results.

A OP posts a legitimate question, and a range of answers quickly appears. Then the barstool experts chime in, and in, and in and the thread wanders off into weirdness, fine points, arguments and the like. Shame on those who have to piggyback in this fashion.

Meanwhile the OP is not free of rebuke. In this case all the action occurred on day one of the OP, ending with the quote above, wherein the OP sent an email to the proposed "test driver". But we never hear the outcome. We never learn exactly what the OP proposed, nor do we learn how the potential buyer reacted.

Did he make a payment? Did the test drive occur and how'd it come out? Nope, we learn nada, nothing, zippo. This is hardly fair. I believe any OP who asks a question and benefits from the efforts of those who tried to help, and to answer - are owed an outcome with rationale.

In sum this has been a seemingly endless FUBAR. Shame. Interlopers, butt out. Mocha, have the courtesy to finish the story.

[Pinto]

hi all,

I am in the market for a boat and not ready to purchase yet - but, when I am - if any owner showed reluctance to me to have a test drive - I would be highly suspicious.

There is zero way I would by any boat without being on for a test drive - zero (excepting unfinished projects).

There can be a boatload of issues that raise their ugly head if you don't run a boat - creaks, groans, vibrations, handling like a dog, - a list a mile long.

I remember looking a tiny boat - a dinghy with an outboard on it. The bloke agreed to a test drive but, I could see he wasn't keen - he wanted me to 'buy' it first then 'take it for a test'

yeah right - what an idiot.

So, we took the boat to the ramp and put it in the water -- OMG - even 6 inch waves sent more spray and crap into the boat than one would see riding out a hurricane - I couldn't believe it.

Sure maybe someone with a LOT of experience in hull shape might have seen the issue without being on the water - but, I didn't - yet, 50 metres in that atrocious thing showed it to be a massive fail -- and, it was a known brand - god, knows - it might have been some sort of prototype or similar - but, it was god awful.

Test drive -- everything -- if you are reluctant - then, there are plenty of other boats for sale.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Pinto

hi all,

I am in the market for a boat and not ready to purchase yet - but, when I am - if any owner showed reluctance to me to have a test drive - I would be highly suspicious.

There is zero way I would by any boat without being on for a test drive - zero (excepting unfinished projects).

There can be a boatload of issues that raise their ugly head if you don't run a boat - creaks, groans, vibrations, handling like a dog, - a list a mile long.

I remember looking a tiny boat - a dinghy with an outboard on it. The bloke agreed to a test drive but, I could see he wasn't keen - he wanted me to 'buy' it first then 'take it for a test'

yeah right - what an idiot.

So, we took the boat to the ramp and put it in the water -- OMG - even 6 inch waves sent more spray and crap into the boat than one would see riding out a hurricane - I couldn't believe it.

Sure maybe someone with a LOT of experience in hull shape might have seen the issue without being on the water - but, I didn't - yet, 50 metres in that atrocious thing showed it to be a massive fail -- and, it was a known brand - god, knows - it might have been some sort of prototype or similar - but, it was god awful.

Test drive -- everything -- if you are reluctant - then, there are plenty of other boats for sale.

Most boat sales, probably in the high 90 something percent, sea trials are done after a contract, price etc is agreed upon... But yes, they are normally done. Small inexpensive boats are another story...

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Pinto

There is zero way I would by any boat without being on for a test drive - zero (excepting unfinished projects).

Well, I've only bought 8 sailboats (so far) and never had a sea trial, test sail, or survey on any of them.

Maybe I'm foolish, but I've owned some great boats...and look forward to the next one!

[Jim Cate]

Maybe I'm foolish

Yep, some evidence to support your opinion!

Curious as to the rough value of all these boats? If low buck purchases, I can understand your position, but if significant money is involved, "foolish" is applicable IMO.

Jim

[john61ct]

I was bidding on a super bargain eBay boat.

As the price climbed I told the buyer payment would be subject to a survey and sea trial.

He balked, I walked, top price was half what I would have paid.

Even if he'd said a few hundred extra to cover his trouble and relisting, I would've been fine.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I was bidding on a super bargain eBay boat.

As the price climbed I told the buyer payment would be subject to a survey and sea trial...

You were not a serious buyer. Any "super bargain eBay boat" will likely not pass survey and is probably unfit for sea trial.

[john61ct]

Just not true. Not for CL either.

I'm not looking for perfect, no full-on survey needed, just eliminating those that need expensive structural work, new sails, engine overhaul etc.

Even some of the Boat Angel - type auctions that close under $3000 are perfectly ready for coastal cruising liveaboard after a few months and a few grand.

You think your statement holds for ones with a $300 grand price too?

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

As many have said, if you as a buyer need to learn about a boat, then there are many ways. You might even convince a seller to give you a ride, perhaps for a fee. But if a free ride, just so you can decide if you like this kind of boat, is your expectation, you will find your possible market is quite small.

Point taken. This is not a part of the sale process, but it may be something a potential buyer would want to do as he sorts through his options. It is just that there are not too many sellers who would choose to play this game if they understood the rules.

[sailorcherry]

Is there now a legal provision for putting down a deposit with a non refundable portion for a test sail/sea trial that doesn't cross the line of needing a captains license?

Because to my understanding, no there's not. Too bad, for it would weed out the all too common tire kicker. Back when I went to 6pak school we went over this scenario and the two brokers in my class confirmed the CG was pushing them to get a license for this reason.

To all you newbs on here saying no way you would put a deposit down before a seatrial, I want to know, how many boats have you sold? Because it takes sooooo much time just to show it multiple times not to mention the rest of the process and then you get to the end to find out they can't really afford it, hah!