Pilothouse Boats -- Again

[Dockhead]

By the way, bit of thread drift, but while we're discussing light and views --

One feature of my boat which I love, and which I am surprised not to have seen on other boats, is that scuttle and washboard of my boat are made out of thick transparent Lexan. The washboard is counterweighted and sinks down out of the way. This adds a great deal of light to the salon. And you can stand at the base of the companionway and look up and have a complete overview of the rig, and sail trim (if you're underway).

I guess not so important in climates where you have all this open anyway most of the time, but up here this is a great feature -- adding a lot of light, and giving extra views.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

The Kanter doesn't seem to check too many of your request in the OP. It's more of a dog house for just navigating and not a place to lounge at anchor....why not add a hard dodger to your boat and have the same thing?

Yes, it does not give a full above-decks saloon, but I've realized that this is not a realistic wish for a boat less than 20 meters.

But it's not just a place for navigating -- there is a decent settee there and I think you could, indeed, lounge at anchor there.

Yes, a hard dodger might be an improvement on my boat. I guess I could add canvas at the aft end to close it off and enable it to be heated. Add a windscreen wiper. I think about this. A hell of a lot less trouble than changing boats, that's for sure.

[poiu]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm actually wired up for a PTZ camera on the mast. Seems kind of bogus, however, to make passages staring at a video screen. I agree with you, however, that the practical capability of such a system will be very great.

What you have sounds almost perfect. If the nav table were just higher. It doesn't seem to me that it would be all that hard to put a micro-house above the nav table, and then raise up the nav table higher than the level of the saloon so you could see forward from there.

I don't quite understand your arrangement -- do you say you can see out the house windows when seated? Or hull ports? When standing in the saloon, what is the level of the deck in relation to your body?

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm actually wired up for a PTZ camera on the mast. Seems kind of bogus, however, to make passages staring at a video screen. I agree with you, however, that the practical capability of such a system will be very great.

What you have sounds almost perfect. If the nav table were just higher. It doesn't seem to me that it would be all that hard to put a micro-house above the nav table, and then raise up the nav table higher than the level of the saloon so you could see forward from there.

I don't quite understand your arrangement -- do you say you can see out the house windows when seated? Or hull ports? When standing in the saloon, what is the level of the deck in relation to your body?

I can see out of the windows. It's pretty much the same idea as the Discovery 55. Here's a picture from a sistership taken from the navstation. The roof is 6'3" above the passageway at the base of the companionway and there are 3 steps down to the galley from there, one up to the seating area. I think the boat could be modified as you say, but is not ideal as the navstation is too far back from the front windows. Ok if not heeled much though, so really only occasional use.



Also, I remembered looking at a Moody 54 like yours on Yachtworld for sale years ago. It is still there. It had a hard cockpit shelter/ open-doghouse you may like:

2002 Moody 54 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by poiu

I can see out of the windows. It's pretty much the same idea as the Discovery 55. Here's a picture from a sistership taken from the navstation. The roof is 6'3" above the passageway at the base of the companionway and there are 3 steps down to the galley from there, one up to the seating area. I think the boat could be modified as you say, but is not ideal as the navstation is too far back from the front windows. Ok if not heeled much though, so really only occasional use.



Also, I remembered looking at a Moody 54 like yours on Yachtworld for sale years ago. It is still there. It had a hard cockpit shelter/ open-doghouse you may like:

2002 Moody 54 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk

Your salon looks great!! Much higher than the usual "raised salon" type, including mine. Looks like you can see out the house windows even when seated. Maybe I need to look at boats like yours.

The hard dodger on that M54 also looks good. With canvas to close it off at the aft end, maybe really that would do the trick. That could even be a decent place to sit at anchor. Bet it would cost a fortune, but still cheaper and easier than changing boats. Hmmm.

[weavis]

I never ever saw the point in having a million dollar boat, scrap that, ANY boat where the guy at the wheel did not have cover in rain or cold weather. Screw that for a game of soldiers.


D.H., you love your Moody. Why not concentrate on a design to enclose yourself and have a rain free and warm enclosure. Seems the easiest way.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Here you go! Breckemeyer design with ketch rig option. Modern and fast design with waterproof bulkheads fore and aft.

Berckemeyer Yacht Design | plans for modern and classic sailing yachts

Matt

This one looks very nice for a new boat available in Cutter or Ketch design. It can have a lifting keel or fixed keel.

The design reminds me of the Dashew designs. See the ketch rig illustration. Funny to me how that design seems "conservative" to me now compared to what other contemporary 2015 designs show (the wedge shape).

Any idea how much this would cost?

It is out of my budget, but I would think it would fit in Dockhead's range of up to 2 Million Euros.

And in what hull material?

Several of the other designs from this designer/builder appear to have been built in aluminum. While this linked page does not have photos of this design in actual boats (just plan), some of the other boats do show actual construction, hulls, and interiors.

[robert sailor]

The detailing in that hard dodger is quite something, I imagine it did cost a pretty penny.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

This one looks very nice for a new boat available in Cutter or Ketch design. It can have a lifting keel or fixed keel.

The design reminds me of the Dashew designs. See the ketch rig illustration. Funny to me how that design seems "conservative" to me now compared to what other contemporary 2015 designs show (the wedge shape).

Any idea how much this would cost?

It is out of my budget, but I would think it would fit in Dockhead's range of up to 2 Million Euros.

And in what hull material?

Several of the other designs from this designer/builder appear to have been built in aluminum. While this linked page does not have photos of this design in actual boats (just plan), some of the other boats do show actual construction, hulls, and interiors.

That actually looks fabulous. Rather Dashew-like.

Narrow hull. Ketch rig with large mizzen :love:. That's like the Dashew ketches, where the mizzen gives drive instead of just blanketing the main like normal ketches

Water ballast! :love:

Very good pilothouse.

Me likes

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by weavis

I never ever saw the point in having a million dollar boat, scrap that, ANY boat where the guy at the wheel did not have cover in rain or cold weather. Screw that for a game of soldiers.


D.H., you love your Moody. Why not concentrate on a design to enclose yourself and have a rain free and warm enclosure. Seems the easiest way.

I agree!

Your first comment reminded me of the open navigating bridges found on the escort vessels used by the Royal Navy (and Canadian Navy) during the Battle of the Atlantic (convoy duty in WW2).

That era's ships (destroyers, corvettes, frigates) all had an open bridge, where the officers stood their watch, exposed to the rain, snow, cold. Imagine doing that watch during a winter convoy up to Archangel or Murmansk! BRRRRRRRRR..

[Steadman Uhlich]

Poiu: That Oyster 66 saloon looks VERY nice! Wow!

[Steadman Uhlich]

The Garcia Exploration 45 is a currently made boat that appeals to me for several reasons:

1. Designed for "exploring," extended "blue-water" cruising, and high latitude sailing.

2. Metal (Aluminum) built by a reputable yard (not homebuilt).

3. Modern interior and contemporary hull design. Room for a couple, with guests.

4. Inside and forward facing helm with nav station.

5. Multiple saloon (or pilothouse) portlights for good visibility all around, but the portlights (glass) are relatively moderate in size (height), compared to some yachts (e.g. many deck saloon boats) that have very large portlights in the saloon.

Since the brief (desired feature) of the OP (Dockhead) is for a longer/larger boat, I submit for consideration the Garcia Exploration 52.

This is very close to my concept of a "dream boat."

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by weavis

I never ever saw the point in having a million dollar boat, scrap that, ANY boat where the guy at the wheel did not have cover in rain or cold weather. Screw that for a game of soldiers.


D.H., you love your Moody. Why not concentrate on a design to enclose yourself and have a rain free and warm enclosure. Seems the easiest way.

Yes, it's hard to argue with that logic.

As to why we don't get any shelter at the wheel --
--
Well, sailing is an outdoor sport, and the great majority of sailors don't go out in the rain, and don't sail multi-day passages in the cold.

Lately you see a lot of wedgie-type boats following the example of Wally and others with nearly flat decks and no house at all -- no shelter of any kind, even from the wind, like this:



That's made for striking a pose at the yacht club after a day sail in your white sweater and white cotton trousers, not for passage-making. At least not at our latitudes.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

The Garcia Exploration 45 is a currently made boat that appeals to me for several reasons:

1. Designed for "exploring," extended "blue-water" cruising, and high latitude sailing.

2. Metal (Aluminum) built by a reputable yard (not homebuilt).

3. Modern interior and contemporary hull design. Room for a couple, with guests.

4. Inside and forward facing helm with nav station.

5. Multiple saloon (or pilothouse) portlights for good visibility all around, but the portlights (glass) are relatively moderate in size (height), compared to some yachts (e.g. many deck saloon boats) that have very large portlights in the saloon.

Since the brief (desired feature) of the OP (Dockhead) is for a longer/larger boat, I submit for consideration the Garcia Exploration 52.

This is very close to my concept of a "dream boat."

That looks pretty good. The lifting keel, if it's hydrodynamically efficient, is a plus. But with a number of flaws. To get the galley up, however, they have adopted the dreadful practice of making the nav table seat a corner of the salon settee -- ick! Looks like you won't be able to see over the house from the aft steering position.

[funjohnson]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

The Garcia Exploration 45 is a currently made boat that appeals to me for several reasons:

2. Metal (Aluminum) built by a reputable yard (not homebuilt)

Except for the cabin top which is fiberglass. I know it's for weight, but having two materials with a Plexus bond still seems wrong on an expedition boat.

Matt

[Steadman Uhlich]

Every boat is a compromise.

The saloon and inside helm position of the Buizen 52.