Peterson 46 vs TC 47

[speedoo]

Who built your boat, rusky? I had never heard of a Hiller 46 before.

I own a KP 44, which is quite obviously the best of all

[andreavanduyn]

Rusky, is there a real differnce in hull between the 44 and 46 or did they just extend the stern a bit/?

Where were they built? Taiwan or HK?

Do you know the CT -Cheoy Lee 47 to compare?

[speedoo]

My understanding is that the 46 was extended about two feet by modifying the hull section below the cockpit area. So obviously more displacement, waterline length and hull speed, but I don't think there was any increase in the living areas below... bigger cockpit and engine room, I think and also eliminated the KP44 weather helm tendency.

The KP 44 mast is already very tall, so I'm not sure any sail area was added in the 46.

It's also my understanding that Doug Peterson, the KP 44 designer, did not approve of the 46, but I am not sure why.

I'd love to see a 46 next to my KP 44 to get a more accurate assessment of the differences.

[rusky]

Speedo,
The P measurement is a foot taller but I think that is the only difference with the sails. My understanding is as you say - I have heard that the wider transom area has introduced a little weather helm - but the boat is so well balanced you can adjust the sails/ traveller etc.

The hull is a formosa peterson and Ron Hillier (fremantle Aust) built the fitout. Beaut in teak - look up peterson in 'yachthub' to see the photos of the 2 for sale. I think only 13 were made of our kind.

As I said earlier, I have no experience of a cheoy Lee except they seem/appear to have a lower aspect rig. [P=46',E=18']I was just gloating. I guess if we were to race the 44 and the 46 somewhere - I would get there 2 feet ahead of you!! ( or near enough) This is based on the performance of the boat and definitely not the performance of the crew (me)

The people we met( Formosa 46) said they porpoised through some disgustingly scary swells and the boat loved it - (they didnt)

Where are you and are you heading off?

[dbraymer]

I have a ct47 ketch center cockpit. I saved one original electrical outlet cover plate and left it in place at the nav station. It has Ta Chaio stamped on the stainless steel. The hull has a C&C sheerline cut in it with the famous star dagger recessed into the hull. The hull looks to me very much like the C&C 48 with a changed keel. I owned a C&C 33, I am very familiar with these lovely shapes... Hull might be the same one shipped to Baltic for their Baltic 46, with the deeper keel.
I can't compare the peterson 46 with the ct 47 as to sailing. But in Long beach they gave my ketch a phrf of 84, which I think is slightly faster than the peterson, go figure....

[gjordan]

Somewhere on CF there is another thread about KP44s and KP46s and Formosa 46s and several other variations of the same design. I used to own a Stevens Yachts version of the 44. It was the basic KP 44 without the teak decks(thank heaven) and a lot more water tankage for the charter guests. While I owned it I was able to go aboard a Formosa 46, and found it to be a very nice boat with different wood work and styling down below, but from what I could see of it, it was a well built and beautiful boat. In the other thread there were several other boat names that came up that were supposedly variations that I had never heard of. I understand that Doug Peterson had a legitimate gripe against the Formosa 46, because it was a ripoff from his design that he never got royalties from. I am not sure about the weather helm statements , since mine had very little weather helm if it was sailed properly. I used to go upwind with the helm locked and the boat steering itself for many hours. I doubt that there is much sailing difference between the 44 and the 46. I think they are a truly wonderful boat._____Grant.

[zoombats]

I have a peterson/Formosa/Spindrift 46 that was built in Taiwan in 1982. when Formosa extended the Kp 44, that they were building under license, the story is well documented regarding their lack of royalties to Peterson. It didn't stop Kelly Peterson from using the Queen Long yard (Taiwan) from building their own KP 46. Australian boat builder Ron Hillier oversaw the building of Formosa 46's and built them for Bristol yachts of Newport Beach and branded them the Spindrift 46. He built the Hillier/Peterson 46 for the Aussie market but ran afoul of Peterson due to the inclusion of his name. The boats, KP 44, KP 46, Peterson 46, Formosa 46, Spindrift 46 and the Hillier Peterson 46 are well documented on a fantastic website Sailboatdata.com is the worlds largest sailboat database. with info on design, and the yards that built them. Anyone further interested can go on Peterson Cutter Website - Welcome where they will find a wealth of information on these boats by the owners. My wife and I live onboard our Spindrift/Formosa/Peterson 46 and have found her be everything we need in a blue water live aboard. Quality of build has never been in question and the boat is a "Rock". Mark Warburton, S/V Hoopoe III, Hebe Haven Yacht Club, Pak Sha Wan, New Territory, Hong Kong, SAR.

[gjordan]

Spindrift was one of the names that I had forgotten. As far as the boats being a Rock (rock solid), my Stevens Yachts 44 never creaked or flexed or gave any indication other than solid, solid boat. The one complaint that I had was the very poor quality Stainless steel. I replace about half of the chain plates and would have replaced the water tanks except they were so built in that it was going to be a major rebuild of the whole interior to pull the 5 separate tanks. Still was a great boat._____Grant.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by andreavanduyn

Why are the Petersons so popular on your side of the ocean and not the TC's for example as prices are similar?

Assuming you mean Ta Chaio. That yard was very popular. By the Mid 80's the CT built boats were pretty good. I have no idea if any Peterson types were built at CT or somewhere else.
Early TC boats were not as well built as the later ones, but generally the interiors were wonderful beyond what the Petersons were.... if you like teak. The true Petersons I've seen seemed to have a more careful layup plan and layup finish work and a more sparse interior with a lot of white surfaces, some people like that. The CT's also most often had teak decks and alot of resultant core issues. Often the quality culture in Taiwan was "if you cant see it, dont wory about it". So tabbbing for bulkheads and cabinetry might not be ground off inside a cabinet or behind a bulkhead, resulting in sharp glass edges sticking up. I would be surprised if the comparable selling prices were near the same for Petersons vs CT Petersons...? Somebody mentioned Cheoy Lee, and to my knowledge the CL's were not ever built at Ta Chaio. From what I've seen, I would rate (from best and then down in quality) the Taiwan builders as : Ta Shing, Ta Chaio, and Formosa or some of the others.
Most realistically, the best examples from Taiwan are the ones that had a representative at the boatyard, thus relaying the quality expectation to the yard over time. Ta Shing seemed to have management that picked this up real fast and carried it forward on their own quickly becoming the premier yard. In fact , I understand that today they build only yachts over 100 ft or so!

[Cheechako]

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Sure , I agree! I think!

[billmayse]

Yes the knock of the Kelley Peterson 46 is the Formosa 46. Very inferior workmanship and materials used, The true KP46 had only 30 boats manufactured all supervised by Doug Peterson, stay away from the knock offs.

[Mike R]

I beg to differ and don't believe you have actually seen, been aboard nor sailed a Peterson Formosa 46. The interiors were often custom as many of these boats were built for actual buyers. The Teak Joinery was solid Teak and no laminates used (Peterson used laminates). The Hull layup is extremely solid and blistering has never been an issue . High volume tankage (steel fuel and stainless for water) and a fantastic interior layout for offshore use with ample well placed handholds and u shaped galley. Abundant storage is well placed. Motor size is more than adequate at 75hp to 85 hp engines were used.
Teak decks..... Well, they can be an issue as ALL Teak can be from the "screwed down" era. A nice thing though is the teak has fiberglass under it with non skid. Teak Decks were an option. Core material is Teak or Mahogany or both. Ports are all solid bronze and operable. (This was not cheap and certainly does not show that Formosa cut corners).
Nobody should consider arguing whether these boats weren't World Class offshore capable boats in their day and frankly today as well. Many are on serious offshore adventures as we speak. Speed? With over 1,000sq ft of sail It is quite common for these mid displacement (31-33k) boats to lay out 200nm days. One last thing... The KP44.org group I believe has over 600 members and is quite active. This group has a number of Formosa 46 owners in it.


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[zoombats]

Well said Mike. I was ready to respond in much the same fashion as you have here but realized in re reading the thread that I had commented previously. Kelly and Peterson never questioned the quality of the builders they chose when using the Queen Long and Formosa yards. Formosa damaged their reputation with the extension of the 44 and failure to compensate Peterson. The quality was never an issue and what you say is true about the use of veneers as opposed to solid teak in the supposedly superior Queen Long yard. My own Formosa/peterson/Spindrift 46 is built strong and even though a little tired in looks it is all cosmetic and I would sail that boat anywhere. Boatbuilding in Taiwan is in steady decline from it's heyday in the eighties. I recently delivered a new Tayana 47 from taiwan to Hong Kong and I can honestly say that given a choice I would rather make the passage on mine.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by zoombats

Well said Mike. I was ready to respond in much the same fashion as you have here but realized in re reading the thread that I had commented previously. Kelly and Peterson never questioned the quality of the builders they chose when using the Queen Long and Formosa yards. Formosa damaged their reputation with the extension of the 44 and failure to compensate Peterson. The quality was never an issue and what you say is true about the use of veneers as opposed to solid teak in the supposedly superior Queen Long yard. My own Formosa/peterson/Spindrift 46 is built strong and even though a little tired in looks it is all cosmetic and I would sail that boat anywhere. Boatbuilding in Taiwan is in steady decline from it's heyday in the eighties. I recently delivered a new Tayana 47 from taiwan to Hong Kong and I can honestly say that given a choice I would rather make the passage on mine.

Would you be so kind as to explain what it was about the new Tayana 47 that was a turn-off for you?

Thanks,

Ann

[Mike R]

Just a tidbit, the owners of Formosa after retirement moved to Nanaimo BC where they still live today.

Mike


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