Performance Cruisers vs Minivans

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by jpbronco

> WHAAAAAT?! You would drop that kind of money on a boat WITHOUT checking out a dozen boats?

@s/v Breakaway - my response could be a different thread on how to buy boat. It's not my impression that I could drop in on a broker, convince him I'm a buyer and take out 3-4 of his boats over the course of a day or two for test drives and then do that again until I've sailed each of the Hanse, Benes, Jeaneaus, DuFours, Catalina, X-, Island Packets, etc on my list. That would be a summer of AWESOME weekends.

Instead, we've been visiting boat shows, brokers, marinas, talking with other cruisers and reading communities like this until we find something that meets our needs as far as size, appointments, layout, etc. to narrow this down to 2-3 boats that we WOULD sail before the purchase.

The top of our list was the J 44DS. Having sailed a 10' shorter variation of that boat for 2 days in 10kts of wind, I've found it a boor to sail. I'm asking the community on what's better or if I'm off my rocker.

LOL... 10kts of wind, barely enough to ruffle the sea, its not a dinghy.. try it in 20kts.. at 10kts wind speed whatdya expect.. a 12kt performance..

[s/v Breakaway]

jpbronco - 10 knots won't give you a very exciting ride on a 34-footer, much less a 44-footer.

[sail sfbay]

Consider a J44 (link below) for performance cruising. Sailed one in the San Francisco Bay many times and they are fun to sail and fast. Consider a spinnaker for more performance. That said, my wife and I like our Hunter 46 for cruising San Francisco Bay and down the coast and it provides plenty of performance for us.

https://www.jboats.com/resources/jwo...ool/44-j44/j44

[witzgall]

What were the conditions when you sailed her? That can make all of the difference.

Chris

Originally Posted by jpbronco

This weekend, the wife and I took our ASA101 on a smaller variation (Jeanneau 349) of what we thought was our next boat (44DS). By the second day, we both felt the boat sailed like a mini van. Slow and not much performance. A 10 year old could single sail it. Just a yawn at sea. At anchor, I'm sure this boat is a dream.

What are some late model boats we should include in our search that are fun to sail and still be comfortable on a mooring ball in the 40-45' range?

[john61ct]

The qualities that make a sailboat fast and "exciting" are very different from those that make for comfortable camping. Striving to find everything in one boat is a lot more expensive and more difficult.

You definitely should work out how to get a hundred days of sailing on dozens of different boats, before committing to spending that kind of money.

If you earned that money such a challenge should be trivial, the time investment is inevitable anyway, but spend it well and you will save a lot of money and frustration.

Unless that sort of money is truly small change for you, and NBD if you turned out to have wasted most of it.

[roland stockham]

I have always found that the is a fun/displacement ratio, the bigger the displacement figure the lower the fun one. On the other hand there is the comfort/displacement ratio which goes in exactly the opposite direction. The sweet spot where the to cross is a very personal choice! I find under 40ft puts you in touch with the sailing, 40-45ft OK but depends a lot on the boat. Anything above 45ft unless built to race seams to be like taking an apartment to sea. Lots of people do seem to want to take there luxury apartment with double beds and 2 bathrooms to sea but it ain't going to be fun to sail, race sailers cut the toothbrush handles off for a reason...

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "A 10 year old could single sail it"

Well, yes, of course! That's precisely what you expect of well behaved cruiser. 'Twould help if you delineated the weather conditions and the sea state during your "graduation" sail in the 34-footer. Was there a discrepancy twixt what your examiner was charged with doing and you own desires for the day on the water?

Perhaps we would be able to help you better if you stated explicitly and with precision just what your performance expectations are in regard to the boat you wish to get. And what, precisely, do you expect the performance differences to be twixt the 34-footer and the 44-footer?

TrentePieds

[Glassdog]

My suggestion would be: since you are neophytes in your sailing evolution, it is way too early to make any assessments about one boat or another. Take time to learn and grow into the sport, start racing with Wednesdays or Saturdays to learn about speed and characteristics of many different boats. And once you have done all that invest in a smaller used cruiser to see if you really enjoy the lifestyle before you dump hundreds of thousands of dollars into a large boat . There are thousands of people out there with your same attitude and enthusiasm who quickly discovered that the sailing lifestyle was not for them or they simply could not afford it. Just a tidbit of sage advice from a lifelong sailor and multiple boat owner.

[Cheechako]

I think you just experienced the difference in a large boat vs small boat. The Jeanneau should sail great if you know how well enough. Not a racer but not like a cruiser either.

I tried a couple times to go back from like a 44 footer to a 26 footer etc. UGH... is all I can say. On a 44 I motorsail if I cant make near 4 knots. On a 26 footer, I'm lucky to ever make 4 knots!

[Shrew]

I'm not sure we're even comparing apples to apples here. Consider theoretical hull speed:

44DS: 8.88
34: 7.813

You're sailing a slower boat simply based on LWL and physics in extremely light wind and attempting to extrapolate that to the performance of the entire line in all possible conditions.

Also, if 4kts is dull 8 kts will be equally as exciting.

[MikeHedge]

This speed thing is SO relative on a sailboat. On many, a half knot makes one boat “faster” than another. And for both, most of your average sailing time you’re talking walking speed. We had a Hunter 45 Center Cockpit with deep draft (6.5 ft). It sailed fantastically and was incredibly comfortable. However, the deep draft kept us out of many marinas — so make sure your know the geographical reach of your sailing plans and buy a boat for that reality. Same with speed; what’s the rush? Most people sail because they enjoy sailing.

[DMCantor]

We absolutely love our Outbound 46. Very speedy when we want her to be, very forgiving when we need that, absolutely comfortable to live aboard. You will not be disappointed in the sailing performance.

[moseriw]

Do not look for the late models unless you want to buy an amel or such.
All out in the market are manufactured for coastal charter bizz in the cheapest possible manner. Though said, all are scrap. You pay 300.000 bucks and get notting valuable.

Look out for pre 1990 boats, especially for so called bluewater cruisers. Long keel, ketch or schooner and do not expect to race around the world. Be glad with 6 knots, no matter what boat you have. With a performance cruiser you may get 10-12 knots out but it is terrible hard work to do so. Finally even the performancers reduce speed to keep the long run comfortable.

And: as a liveaboard you stay 85% an anchor or in a marina. Not worth the effort having a performance, light build and lousy manufactured nightmare.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by jpbronco

I should have mentioned that we both have sailed for years, race on Wed nights and owned a 26' cabin cruiser for a few years. We are taking the certification route for insurance and cover gaps in our knowledge.

Yeah, jumping from a wed night raceboat to a cruiser is going to be quite a shock.

Going back to my boat after racing on my friends J/92 always made me long for a faster boat, even though mine isn't really a slug!

[moseriw]

And tough said having bought a boat means having bought work on the boat but with the pre 1990 you maintain quality.


And even with a new boat there is always something that do not fit your wishes or breaks down.