Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

The problem with the fuse holder on the course computer had nothing to do with Defender - it was a Raymarine problem and Defender quickly and freely solved it for me.

The split order was also a Raymarine problem - I wanted a new 30 amp Linear Drive motor and Raymarine could not get it shipped 10 miles to Defender

I can not image how you think that spending five hours to determine if my very complex 1995 electronics and navigation package would work with new 2013 electronics could be done in any less time. My nav system has 12 components (all from Autohelm/Raymarine) and it took a lot of time to determine what needed to be updated and what could be retained.

Even after all the consultation - I still needed to buy one more obscure and esoteric part to make the stuff work.

And... Raymarine changed the size of the cutout for the new AP70 control head and it would not fit in the cockpit nav panel where the old ST60 control head sat. So - I had to spend 3 hours trying to fit the old and new together.

Then... I had to run ONE MORE cable up a 1" stainless steering pedestal mount that already contained one too many cables.

That is all very time consuming but I admit I may be slow, tedious, and I know I am old!

I will stand by my usual statement about boat projects:

They take twice as long and cost twice as much as your initial wildass guess.

You're an optimist!

[TacomaSailor]

"DDABS, before you spend money on a wind generator, you might want to search out the video of the young Australian boy that did a nonstop around the world trip. In one scene he is down below(and not very happy) and there is this horrible howling in the background. "

Here is another biased assessment of wind generators - they are noisy and only provide power in windy anchorages where I would prefer not to be anchored.

We cruised with friends that had two KISS wind generators. We would not allow them to anchor upwind of us because it constantly sounded like a turboprop was getting ready to takeoff anytime the wind blew more than 12 knots.

They also produced little useful power until 15 knots over the deck. We only measured about 2 amps from each at 12 knots.

I spent a lot of time on their boat and the blades and mounts resonated terribly at several different windspeeds in the 10 - 18 knot range.

The boat owner was a licensed Airframe and Powerplant mechanic and was foreman at a shop that rebuilt old piston engine fighter planes. He knew about everything there was to know about blade balancing and all we could do was move the resonance up and down in the wind speed range - but the whole boat vibrated at times when the turbines were making real power.

I hope you realize that any tiny little shadow on a solar panel will have a very bad effect on panel power. It is hard it imagine how a wind turbine and radar antenna on the arch can not have very negative consequences for solar panel efficiency.

[TacomaSailor]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Re: Tankage:
Diesel- you dont need too much... just means your diesel is going to get old in the tank.
Water.. the more the better unless you're getting water maker, then less is fine.
I inspected (1hour) a Caliber 40 in the year 2000 for some friends. I was a bit unimpressed... mostly just because when I pounded on the hull sides in the V berth area it rattled like a cheap powerboat. Probably no worse than a Bene, Catalina or other production boats.. but isnt it supposed to be better?

WHOOPS - A Caliber 40 does not and has never had a V-berth. It is a pullman berth amidships. The forward 12 feet of the boat is the chainlocker, a crash bulkhead, a shower, and a head.

There is very little exposed hull in the pullman berth - starboard is a cedar lined hanging locker and cabinet and port is a 30" high queen sized bed with storage under it and a bookcase above. The only place you can pound on the hull is under or above the port bookshelf. When I hit there I hurt my hand and hear a little rattle from the book shelve retaining slats. Is that what you heard?

If you pounded on the hull side in the lockers you were not hitting the hull but just cedar striping. If you pounded on the hull in the shower you were ratting the shower pan or the mirror mounted on the starboard side of the head.

I've spent quite a few nights in that berth offshore in 25 - 40 knots and 10 seas, both upwind and downwind, and have never heard a sound similar to a cheap powerboat. In fact, I've never heard any sound that vaguely sounded like a flexing hull.

Are you sure you were on a Caliber 40?

[DDabs]

gjordan, The LRC has roller furling on the main in the mast, so I will not need to worry about slack sail cutting my visibility. I am completely aware of the pros and cons regarding roller furling vs. performance, and I have decided to go with roller furling based on multiple issues, however it is not a deal breaker on a boat without it.

Tacoma, thanks so much for the list you have provided. It gives me a great idea of equipment and I will use it to tweak my outfitting list here and there.

As for the wind generator, it seems like most people are against them. The model I was looking at is a D400, and I have been on board an Island Packet 40 with one installed and it seemed relatively quiet, although I wasn't on board during 25+ knot winds. Something to research more I suppose.

The solar panels being mounted on a hard top bimini would be mounted as far aft as possible. From the drawings of the Caliber 40:


I should be able to squeeze some panels behind the mast to reduce shading. I realize there will still be some shading from possible radar and when the sail is up.

Cheechako, I'm not sure if you have the right boat. Tacoma is dead on with his description. I also grabbed and pounded everything I could get my hands on inside the Caliber 40 I saw in St. Petersburg, and everything was solid as a rock. I actually viewed the Caliber immediately after looking at a Beneteau 473, and it made the Beneteau seem somewhat thin and squeaky. I am a huge fan of the 473, and realize they are completely different boats. I also have no doubt in the quality and toughness of the 473. It is a huge boat.

[DDabs]

Also, to those regarding tankage- personally, I am someone who would rather have the spare tankage than not, if possible. I doubt I'm going to be lugging around 212 gallons of diesel at all times, but I do plan on taking this vessel on long voyages at some point in her life, and would rather have big internal tanks than carry jerry cans on deck. I am aware of the bacteria that grows in the layer of water on the bottom of diesel tanks. I actually just viewed a Brewer 44 today that had a custom fuel polishing system separate from the engine's fuel filters that would be run for 15 every day (her owner was completely OCD about polishing the fuel). Quite interesting. It's not something I would bother with now, but seems like a cool project to develop after owning the boat for a few years perhaps.

[Dulcesuenos]

My last 2cents , what are those monster tanks made out of? If plastic or stainless great if aluminum that doesn't sound **. If they need replacement. The other is wind gennys are good in the caribbean, anywhere else id rather invest in more Solar. Wind gennys need maintenance, can be noisy and vibrate, for.the headaches ours had and most i've seen, no sure were pitting one on our new cat.

[Oregon Waterman]

Originally Posted by Horror Hotel

Not deal with defender ? Yah right. That whole post reeks of novice.

I do not know who defender is, some upmarket 'marine' outfit?
Hmmm, I must be novice.
Troll harder.

[Horror Hotel]

Originally Posted by Oregon Waterman

I do not know who defender is, some upmarket 'marine' outfit?

Hmmm, I must be novice.

Troll harder.

You speak of moving your windlass battery to a charging station or using a extension cord to bring a charger to it. That's crazy talk, and not how it's done. All to avoid buying long runs of correct tinned cable. Would you really want to do that every day ? I called you a novice for all the crazy talk in your post, that doesn't make me a troll. You probably are the troll, I mean moving a battery around daily? Come on.

[carstenb]

my 2 cents.

20k for electronics is not completely off.

furono MFD12 - cost 3 grand
ICOM 801 incl. tuner - cost - 2 grand
AIS tranceiver - cost 500
autopilot? -cost for heavy duty - 4 grand
radar (furono) cost 4 grand
wind instruments/echo - cost?

the above totals 15.5, not counting the wind/echo. Danish prices yes, but because of my job I get a discount. I do all the installation myself.

Do you need all the above to cruise? absolutely not, but is quite desirable.

[Oregon Waterman]

Originally Posted by Horror Hotel

You speak of moving your windlass battery to a charging station or using a extension cord to bring a charger to it. That's crazy talk, and not how it's done. All to avoid buying long runs of correct tinned cable. Would you really want to do that every day ? I called you a novice for all the crazy talk in your post, that doesn't make me a troll. You probably are the troll, I mean moving a battery around daily? Come on.

No, crazy talk is thinking you will be moving a windlass battery every day...(strawman but a hat tip for the effort)
You are right, your not a troll, just incapable of thinking outside of the box that has been built for you.

How is this known?

"That's crazy talk, and not how it's done"
Done by whom? And sorry, you do not get to state 'how its done'.
You can say 'that is another way of doing it' right or wrong for you.
Getting out of drilling bulkheads etc. to lay 100 feet of cable may not be an innovation but it is a viable solution if I ever found myself too weak or too rich to raise my own anchor.

[Cuttyhunk]

Originally Posted by Oregon Waterman

I do not know who defender is, some upmarket 'marine' outfit?

Defender has been selling marine parts at a discount since 1937. I have been a customer since 1976 (holy you-know-what! but I was in my teens then, keeping a Sunfish going). I worked part time on the electronics counter last year. The full time guy goes above and beyond to help a customer plan the installation, deal with any problems, make sure the customer has all the necessary bits to get it installed…after a few months, I could help 90% of customers with confidence, but would always run the tricky questions by him.

So, believe me, it would be worth your while to do some research and find Defender. Nothing fancy, no "West Advisor" and the catalog has only a few color pages, but most of the employees are boaters and know their stuff -- and the prices are very good.

[Oregon Waterman]

Originally Posted by DDabs

Also, to those regarding tankage- personally, I am someone who would rather have the spare tankage than not, if possible. I doubt I'm going to be lugging around 212 gallons of diesel at all times, but I do plan on taking this vessel on long voyages at some point in her life, and would rather have big internal tanks than carry jerry cans on deck. I am aware of the bacteria that grows in the layer of water on the bottom of diesel tanks. I actually just viewed a Brewer 44 today that had a custom fuel polishing system separate from the engine's fuel filters that would be run for 15 every day (her owner was completely OCD about polishing the fuel). Quite interesting. It's not something I would bother with now, but seems like a cool project to develop after owning the boat for a few years perhaps.

Jerry's on deck are ugly and unsafe, prone to crooks. Also, with all of that fuel, helping a sailor in need of fuel would be more palatable without harming your stores. Your choice of boats has much stowage, I doubt you would miss much with the larger tanks. My little boat has three tanks and I wouldn't mind another.

[Oregon Waterman]

Originally Posted by bethflkys

So, believe me, it would be worth your while to do some research and find Defender. Nothing fancy, no "West Advisor" and the catalog has only a few color pages, but most of the employees are boaters and know their stuff -- and the prices are very good.

Glad you like them, I have never heard of them and do very little business where I have to buy new. I am on the West Coast though and do no business with companies East of the Cascades/Sierra's in any case.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by bethflkys

Defender has been selling marine parts at a discount since 1937. I have been a customer since 1976 (holy you-know-what! but I was in my teens then, keeping a Sunfish going). I worked part time on the electronics counter last year. The full time guy goes above and beyond to help a customer plan the installation, deal with any problems, make sure the customer has all the necessary bits to get it installed…after a few months, I could help 90% of customers with confidence, but would always run the tricky questions by him.

So, believe me, it would be worth your while to do some research and find Defender. Nothing fancy, no "West Advisor" and the catalog has only a few color pages, but most of the employees are boaters and know their stuff -- and the prices are very good.

Great company , bought a fair bit of stuff from them over the years. , good knowledgable people

Dave

[TacomaSailor]

Originally Posted by DDabs

Tacoma, in regards to radar/solar/wind, I was planning on having the radar and the wind gen, as well as davits mounted on the arch. The cockpit would be covered by a hardtop bimini with solar panels mounted on top of that. I will need to do more research and take dimensions to see what size panels will fit on the hardtop without being shaded by mainsail, wind gen, etc. I am not opposed to mounting the radar midmast if it turns out to be a problem for the solar panels. Personally, I do not like the look of mounting solar panels to the arch as they usually have some overhang, and in strong winds it seems like something to consider, when mounted to a hardtop bimini they would sit flush and the top would be securely mounted the same as the arch. Thoughts?

DDabs,

You are asking excellent questions and thinking about the boat purchase in a good conservative fashion.

Arch and Solar Panel: Have you see our pictures and blogs about arches and solar panels? I can provide you exact specifications and can also tell you the problems with building your own arch.

click here: SOLAR PANELS and ARCH

Wind loading on solar panels - we have spent many hours, and a few unfortunate hours, with our four big solar panels and arch at sharp angles to winds of over 45 knots. I have never once seen any indication of panel flexing or undue strain on the arch, panel mounts, or panels.

My engineering calculations indicate that wind loads on the panels are in the range of a few psi to maybe 10 psi in 35 knots.

Other Caliber 40 cruising equipment: here is a link to everything we have installed on Mirador in the last 19 years, when we installed it, and some comments about the equipment

click here: INSTALLED EQUIPMENT