Outbound 44 vs Valiant 42

[Jd1]

Just curious if anybody had any thoughts how these two stack up against each other. I guess the only thing they have in common is that they are both blue water cruisers but I would be curious to hear other peoples' opinions.

[djmarchand]

They are both excellent blue water cruisers.

The Valient is a cutter and the Outbound has a Solent rig. I like them both, but lean toward the Solent as my preference.

But I have a prdjudice against canoe stern boats: difficult boarding access, lack of interior volume and smaller cockpit volume. I realize that the latter can be a positive in a boarding sea situation.

But they sure are pretty to look at.

David

[sailorboy1]

They are so different in layout that really you are the only person who can decide which is best for you. But I like the Outbound better.

One thing to keep in mind is that Outbound is still in business.

[Paul L]

The Outbound is a faster boat. PHRF around 90 with the V-42 around 123. That means the OB owes the V 30+seconds per mile.

[cfarrar]

It's sort of apples and oranges: these are different boats in terms of waterline length, sail area to displacement, layout, tankage, aesthetics...

[svpattyd]

Valiant is still in business, just not making a production line. I call the factory and get parts and they will make a new Valiant if you want one.

[Bill Balme]

Choice was easy for us - we considered both boats - but the Outbound won it easily.

Pros:
Much more easy-to-get-to storage space
Better tankage
Faster
Outside sail storage up front
No teak to worry about (hardly any)
Swim platform for easy access
Great cockpit layout - Large, quick draining
Easy to single hand with main winches right at the helm
Handholds everywhere as you move forward on wide side decks
Very maneuverable in tight quarters
Cabin layout was perfect (for us)
Still in business - and the help we've received from Phil has been great (unfortunately, previous owners won't talk to us)

Cons:
High freeboard
Not as pretty - The Valiant sure is pretty.
Not a cutter (I love the look of the cutter - but the solent makes so much more sense -to us)
Not a canoe stern -I loved that on our Pacific Seacraft - but you give up TONS of storage space.

My somewhat biased 2c!

[Jd1]

Thanks Bill for your excellent reply!
A couple of questions if I may ...
How much of a negative is the high freeboard ?
Is it paranoid to worry about loosing 'stuff' overboard through the large opening in the back of the cockpit ?
Do you have a wind vane and if so how did you manage to attach to the boat without interfering with the boarding setup ?
Too bad the previous owners don't want to talk .....

[Bill Balme]

The only negative on the high freeboard we've experienced is to the looks of the boat - makes it look a bit like a Hunter... However - works well to keep the cockpit a whole heap drier than the old Crealock.
We bought ours in Florida and sailed her back to Rhode Island on the outside. Took us 6 days, ending in two days of gales - first from the SW (following seas) and then as we approached RI we were in 45kt Nor'Easter! Boat was fantastic!
I would imagine the high freeboard might be a bit of a problem when going in and out of slips if there's a high wind - but frankly, she's so much more maneuverable than the old Crealock that I think it's not an issue.

Totally paranoid to worry about losing stuff through the back. Never had a thought about it.

The Monitor windvane is on a hinged system - sits off to starboard when not in use.

Good luck finding an Outbound! If you're in the NE, you're welcome to take a look at Toodle-oo! - but she's definitely NOT for sale!

We were also looking at Passports at the time we decided on this one - Outbounds are actually made in the Passport factory in China...

[BuonVento]

Hi JD1,

I am the first owner of OB Hull #27, s/v Adagio. I'd be glad to share my experience with you -- PM me. She is a very sweet boat!

Fair winds,
Merrie

[msinn]

I'm really liking the Outbound 44/46.

One concern I have is with the encapsulated keel and what damage occurs if the bottom hits rock or coral at a slow speed.

Is the Gelcoat the thing that gets damaged? Is there any shoe or shield in place?

I feel more comfortable with the internal Lead keel (vs an Iron keel on some other boats).

[Bill Balme]

Well, unfortunately I have some first hand experience for you...

We were in Scotland at the beginning of the year and took a last minute diversion towards Lagavulin Distillery on Islay - and I didn't have the right pilot... went up on rocks - albeit gently - but got stuck there...

Whilst on the rocks we bumped and ground - nasty! Fortunately(?) a boat yard is situated right next to Lagavulin and they saw the whole event and came out in a rib to assist. In the act of towing Toodle-oo! off the rocks, there was further significant bumping and grinding - to the extent that it actually bent the rudder, jamming it hard against the hull.

When (eventually) we got the boat out of the water (long story! Oh Bugger… | Toodle-oo! ), the damage to keel and rudder (other than the bend in the rudder post) was minimal and patched up with some west system epoxy. 10 minute job.

When you consider the size of the rudder stock - must be 5" diameter and 3/4" wall thickness 316 stainless, you can imagine the keel took a pretty severe hammering as it was dragged off the rocks.


As to the rudder bending... OK it's a spade and therefore it's susceptible to damage (especially around idiots like me). However, even though it delayed us 5 weeks while a brand new rudder was constructed and shipped to Scotland from China, I'd take the advantages of a fin/spade arrangement over a long-keeler/skeg any day of the week.

Perhaps Merrie can confirm this but I suspect that when we bought the boat it had already taken a bit of a hit in the rudder. The gap between back of rudder and the hull was minimal when we took ownership of the boat - but the new rudder sits well off the hull. Additionally, the replacement of the rudder and it's bearings has eliminated a significant amount of play in the rudder system - such that we nearly took the precaution of replacing bearings before leaving on our transatlantic crossing.

By the way, the rudder mounting arrangement is pretty neat and very simple - and would allow you (who knows why?) to drop the rudder while in the water - the lowest hole is above the waterline.

One more plug for Outbound... Phil Lambert is a real sweetie. When we got into trouble he responded fantastically. Pretty good showing to get a new rudder delivered to us in just 5 weeks. Even though we are not the original owners of this boat, he treats us as if we were.

There are 4 Outbounds up for sale currently - go buy one! You won't regret it!

[msinn]

I attended a talk last week by someone who sailed for two weeks in Scotland thru Inner and Outer Hebrides. That area seems like it has a fair number of Navigational hazards!

Thank you very much for sharing your story. That unfortunately, was a tough, real life test and it seems like Toodle.. came thru it well with minimal hull damage, although the rudder was damaged.

I love hearing how the Outbound folks came thru for you in a pinch.

[msinn]

Interesting that I just bought a bottle of Lagavulin last week! I'll take a sip and read your blog tonight!

[Polux]

The Valiant 42 is basically a Valliant 40 a bit bigger, a 40 year old design, a great one at that time but vastly outdated in many aspects. The Outbound 44 is a 13 year old great design only slightly outdated. There is no possible comparison between the two boats, the Outbound is a much better cruising boat. They are separated by 30 years of yacht design evolution.