Options to minimize heeling?

[Zhent]

Thanks everyone, this is great info.

We're definitely on board with early reefing - I haven't had occasion to experiment with the travelers yet so I wasn't aware that could help us out. We're spending the summer sailing on a Colgate 26, so I'll try that next time.

We're still learning about the various boats that are out there and putting a 'wish-list' together, so this is great info.

Will a full or fin-keel help more than a shoal or wing-keel? The shorter keels seem to be heavier to compensate, so may that cancels out any benefit from the depth of a longer keel?

[Peregrine1983]

I think a Colgate 26, at less than 3000 lbs, is going to be more of the same for you guys. I think if you guys get some sailing time on a heavier cruising sailboat - say something 33 feet plus and more like 10,000 lbs she’ll enjoy it more. It’s a completely different experience.

[Zhent]

Agreed, for sure - unfortunately we signed up for a club for the summer before we realized the issue We're going to take the opportunity while we can, learn the line handling and getting in and out of the marina, and look for a more pleasant experience next year.

[Peregrine1983]

Totally hear ya. I think that’s a good plan. Not trying to bum you out. You’ll have a blast sailing that Colgate (I know I would). A group charter or SailTime Boston is a good way to get time on some bigger boats.

[OzDean]

I took the approach of buying a higher spec boat than needed, so deeper draft 2.55m with Lead Bulb 2800kg Ballast on a Light Displacement 9,200kg. Yes I have to put up with a taller rig and I avoid shallower areas where other 43' yachts might get in, however with smaller headsail choice (avoid the 140% overlap unless it is really light), hydraulic backstay, oversized vang and main sheeted at end of boom, the sails flatten out nicely, so is there is less heeling and low chance of round up. Overall, the specs allowed for a more forgiving sai/rig setup for the family to learn to sail on. The downside is cost, complexity and draft.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Most boats are less efficient when healed over to the point that the lifelines are getting wet anyway. you may feel faster, and your speed may in fact be higher, but your VMG upwind will almost certainly be lower. Excessive heel tends to make the boat slide sideways, this is not fast when your course is to weather.

That point is 15 degrees for us, often times we can reef a little and not lose speed, you can push her beyond 15, but your slower. At 15 degrees our lifelines are no where near the water.

[boatman61]

Less sail, less heel..

[akprb]

You have already gotten plenty of good advice above.

If your goal is cruising over racing then simply avoid sailing upwind. As the old saying goes "Gentlemen seldom sail to weather" or something like that.

or buy a cat of course :-)

[Tayana42]

One additional thought. Make sure your wife gets to drive the boat at least as much as you do. Sitting in the cockpit feeling the boat lean over and having no control can be frightening for a beginner. Holding the wheel or tiller and having control over how high the boat is pointing, when to luff up or fall off allows a much greater feeling of being in control. So be sure she is a full partner, co-captain and not just a somewhat cooperative passenger.

[singlespeed]

There is a reason why most of the Caribbean charter fleets have been converted to catamaran. Vacationers, especially non-rabid racers, want comfort and ease of handling. Compare comparable cruising mono's and cats for speed and comfort and you will come to the same decision as the big charter companies.

[Cpt Pat]

All good advice here. How do you spot the most-skilled sailor in a fleet? He/she is the first to reef! My reefing thresholds for various winds are:

15 - 20 knots: first reef.
20-26 knots: second reef. Working jib comes down, 50% jib goes up.
26-34 knots: third reef. 50% jib comes down, storm jib goes up.

I can maintain hull speed and stay below 30 degrees of heel throughout that entire range. (Past 34 knots, I'm hove-to or have my sea anchor out if there's a lee shore.)

In my sailing area, I go out with at least one reef taken in with anything more than dead calm. It's easy to take out a reef if it isn't needed.

My 26 foot Pearson Ariel has a 4 foot (measured) draft and nearly half her weight in ballast (2,500 pounds). I can heel her to 8 degrees simply by shifting my weight from one foot to the other in the slip. But at 25 degrees, she's very stiff. As others point out, initially tender usually means ultimately stiff. I'd avoid any boat with a beamy and round hull form: the designer sacrificed stability for cabin space below.

There's an advantage to a reasonable amount of heel: it lengthens the waterline and increases hull speed. Mine goes from 5.8 knots with no heel to 6.8 knots at 25 degrees of heel, using the standard formula. So I welcome a moderate heel. If the hull form is well designed, as mine is, there is no perceptible change in helm as heel increases within reasonable ranges. Poorly-designed hull forms will force you to swing the rudder (even with balanced sails) to one side or the other ("weather"/"alee") of amidships to compensate for heel, resulting in "dragging" the rudder and loss of speed and reduced control authority.

Have fun: reef early!

[BlackHeron]

Drop the traveller to the low side, shorten sail early. Avoid going hard to weather. Beam reach is usually the most comfortable point of sail. Slow the boat down even a little bit and comfort often goes up considerably.

Experiment and learn what all the various controls to shape the sails do, having the knowledge and rhe experience to have control over the sails not only makes the boat more comfortable, but makes a sailor more comfortable with what the boat is actually doing.

Large keelboats don't normally capsize, and if you know what you are doing don't often get knocked down or even dip a toe rail in the water unless you want them to.

If this is all too much then buy a motorboat/cruising cat and don't worry about the sailing thing.

[Hardhead]

Also - a lot of non-sailors expect there to be a life or death catastrophe if the boat heels over to far.

If it can be explained to them that healing the boat over too far just has the effect of putting on the brakes, and the boat just STOPS in the water when it's healed too far over - it can help put more perspective on it. Also, as said, a lot of new sailors equate extreme healing with extreme speed - when in fact it is the opposite. If you want to go fast, go flat.

[TrentePieds]

Quote: " The minute water starts hitting the leeward lifelines,"

Whyever would you ever let that happen??? I take it that you are the skipper? And your wife the crew? You say you've both taken 101 and 103? And that you've had great instructors?

I am puzzled. Since that is the case, why would you press your boat so hard?

Quote: " I did the ASA courses on a Hunter 28, and it healed pretty easily, and had a lot of weather helm."

Healing a Hunter 28 to the point where you get water over the rail, i.e. "water starts hitting the leeward lifelines" implies an angle of heel getting on for 40º!

Do you have a clinometer visible from the helming station? Most modern cruising boats have hulls that perform best at an angle of heel of 12º or 15º. When your clinometer shows 12º, begin to ease up in the manner appropriate to the point of sail you are on. Going to weather in a modern cruising boat wearing a 155% genny should be the exception. That is done only in the lightest of weather.

You may have to sail boats fitted with roller furling headsails. You CAN, if you must, do a "partial furl" which has the effect of reducing headsail area, which is what you want. It's a sort of "fake reef". If reefing your headsail, or changing your headsail, down to, say 85%, doesn't get the boat up on her feet again, you'll need reef the main as well. By the time it's blowing 20 knots you might be down to a storm jib and a double reefed main. The objective is to limit the heel to the 12 or 15 degrees that is optimum for hull performance.

Be aware also that ALL modern cruising boats, because of their great beam and fat bellies, have a propensity for pulling their rudders out of the water if you permit them to heel excessively. That generates a "fake weather helm" which can get so bad that you lose control of the boat and it broaches. You said yourself that the H28 you were in had "a lot of weather helm". You were probably on the edge of broaching because you were heeling her too hard.

Different boats react differently to the relative disposition of sail areas before and aft the mast. Only experimentation with your particular boat will tell you the right proportions that will keep the boat on her feet while balancing her so she has a suggestion of weather helm but no more. The more you heel a modern boat the more cantankerous she will get!

Go out and fiddle about with you boat till she has taught you how to handle her at that magic 12 or 15 degrees of helm. Once you have that under your belt, you'll be in a far better position to heel her more on the very rare occasion when that may be called for.

TrentePieds

[Dougtiff]

Gaff rigged, low center of effort.