Opinions: Steel Boats ?

[Zach]

Thanks guys...

An alloy superstructure... that would lower the center of gravity a good bit!

From what I've been reading, (Thanks for the links!) it looks like most plans call for plate thicknesses that are very close to the point where corriosion makes short work of the hull if it can ever start. Not exactly the "industrial grade" shrimp boat with rust stains older than me...

I havent been able to find guidelines for thicknesses other than "Thick at the keel, thin at the toe rail." With various guesstimations attached.

All I can figure is that steel is such a strong material that it can be quite thin and still do what it is asked to do... until it rusts.

I'm not exactly in a position to drop a thousand bucks on plans... So, while the thinking is still going on, what other options are there? I'm fairly confident about jumping in to most anything, but a 30 foot long 10 foot tall, curved hull is not one of them! The last thing I want is for the finished product to represent "Free form, metal sculpture."

[Brent Swain]

I have been building , designing and cruising 11 months a year in steel boats since 1976. Origami boatbuilding techniques have enabled me to pull together 36 foot hulls in as little as two days from the time the steel arrives and tack together 36 ft shells ( hull , decks , wheelhouse, cockpit, keel, skeg and rudder ) in less than a week.My book"Origami Metal Boatbuilding" is a manual on the method.I've built over 33 steel boats . I lost my first boat ,a ferro cement 36 footer, in Fiji in 1975, in conditions that would have never even dammaged a steel boat. My boats have survived everything from 16 days pounding in 8 ft surf on the west coast of Baja, pounding accross 300 yards of Fijian Coral reef, colision with a freighter in Gibralter, winter passage down the Oregon coast, pounding overnight on a rocky BC lee shore in 35 knots of wind with 100 miles of fetch, all without any major dammage .
I have crossed the Pacific many times in my boats. In my current boat I made two trips to Tonga and back since 1999. Sailing on a dark moonless night , thinking about all the cargo containers that have gone missing and are still floating out there , is much more relaxed in a steel boat. Collision with one would probably sink a fibreglass boat , but would be extremely unlikely to seriously damage a steel boat.I wouldn't even consider going to sea in any boat that wasn't made of steel. I couldn't relax enough to enjoy it. Cruising the BC coast , collision with rocks is a minor inconvenience.
I use a 225 amp buzzbox for building, which is all I have ever needed.This enables one to work outdors in rough conditions saving both money and time in the buiklding proccess. i've used a propane cutting torch for most of my boats, but the few times a good plasma cutter was available it saved a lot of time. It takes a big compressor to run one. I once built a boat with too small a compressor for the plasma. It was quicker with the torch , than waiting for the compressor to catch up.
I'm looking foreward to trying the new steelcutting skilsaw blades . They will drasticaly reduce the time and make for better results, especially for first time metal workers.
Alex Christie ( achristie@shaw.ca ) has made a DVD of the origami building process.
Brent Swain
brentswain38@yahoo.ca

[Wynand]

Originally Posted by Louis Riel

.I wouldn't even consider going to sea in any boat that wasn't made of steel.

Ditto.....

[Boracay]

To me the choice of hull and deck material for a yacht is not the most important issue facing the prospective builder.
The two most important issues are build time and cost.
Build time is mostly dependent on build quality. ie if you want a perfect boat it will take much longer to build. However whatever quality you aim for a cruising yacht is going to take many man hours to build. Knowing how many man hours and where they are going to come from is easily the most important question facing the amateur builder.
It is the time from start to sailaway that is important. Build time can be deceptive if a quick hull build leads to a long fitout.
In a perfect world the fitout is done before the hull construction.
The second important item is the cost analysis. Know where each item is coming from and what it will cost.
Make sure you have the time and the money before you start.
Many cruisers find the best course is to invest the money carefully, work harder at their day job and save, save, save.

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by BC Mike

The origami site I mentioned earlier has the greatest amount of welding knowledge that I have ever witnessed. More than I can absorb.
Michael

Much of it incorrect. Recent example: (discussion of 6013)"It's like a mini 7024, lower amperage, which will weld uphand and overhead.
Won't blow out slag like 6011. You end up with a smooth weld. 60 is the tensile
strength 13 is the freezing rate, which is slower freezing ( runnier ) than
6011, which is why you get a much smoother weld."

Stated by the great guru himself, Brent.

[Brent Swain]

One can get a huge head start on any steel boatbuilding project by building all the detail bits and pieces in advance. That can be done without the need for a building site and without being too tied down to the project. One can also start scrounging materials well in advance like lead for ballast, surplus epoxy , plywood , gumwood ( shipping crates) used sails rigging wire etc etc.
I did a lot of this on my boat. It took one month from the time the steel arrived to launching. The I motored it up to where a friend had a welder and power on the beach.
Then I pulled together a couple more 36 footers to get more cash.Then I spent ten days detailing it ( details prebuilt the previous year) Ten days painting. a day sprayfoaming her, then three days roughing the interior in.
Then I went cruising for the rest of the summer before rigging her in a week in October, then I took her for her first sail. Steel arrived april tenth , first sail mid october the same year.
I could never have done it that quickly without having done all my homework in advance.

[dskira]

Originally Posted by Boracay

To me the choice of hull and deck material for a yacht is not the most important issue facing the prospective builder.
The two most important issues are build time and cost.
Build time is mostly dependent on build quality. ie if you want a perfect boat it will take much longer to build. However whatever quality you aim for a cruising yacht is going to take many man hours to build. Knowing how many man hours and where they are going to come from is easily the most important question facing the amateur builder.
It is the time from start to sailaway that is important. Build time can be deceptive if a quick hull build leads to a long fitout.
In a perfect world the fitout is done before the hull construction.
The second important item is the cost analysis. Know where each item is coming from and what it will cost.
Make sure you have the time and the money before you start.
Many cruisers find the best course is to invest the money carefully, work harder at their day job and save, save, save.

You have very good points,
You are absolutly right about the money.
Everyone who want to tackle a project should read your post.
Daniel

[Brent Swain]

If most backyard builders waited until they had the money to finish the boat the boats, and realizing of dreams, would have never been started. It's like saying only the rich should be allowed to have such dreams.
When I started my 31, I had $4,000. By the time I launched the shell I had $40 left. As, at that point, she was not costing me anything, I felt I had all the time in the world to finish her. Over time, bit by bit, I found the means to finish her, No regrets about starting her when I did .Otherwise she would have never happened, as is the case with so many cruising dreams which I have seen realized.
The longest journey begins with a single step.
Ignor Danny's advice..

[Boracay]

I've built two boats(32' Hartley ferro, 21.5 Van de Stadt Ply centreboarder), and am currently (hopefully) nearing the beginning of the end of the fitout of my 44' steel Roberts offshore.

My ferro took 3 years and was never fully finished. When I started I realised that I had no major commitments for foreseeable future, wanted a boat, and went to work. I was lucky in finding a building site close to where I lived and worked and had a good job that paid the bills. Sailed it for 3 years and sold it when I stopped using it. 1973 - 1979 or thereabouts.

My ply Van de Stadt was built in New Guinea while I was doing a two year contract. I sailed it for a year and a bit and sold it up there. 1986 - 1989 or thereabouts.

I've owned a 26' fibreglass Dufor, found keeping it was beyond my means and sold it and now I have my 44' steelie.

At the time reasonable secondhand fibreglass boats were almost unheard off and all boats were very expensive. This is not true now.

I believe I have the experience to state quite categorically that every boat building project must be planned in terms of money (whether cash in hand or income), time (available free of major commitments and personal problems) and resources (where the materials are coming from).

Yes, it can be done by starting with the plans and keeping on going until the boat is launched, then completing in the water. For a smaller boat this is quite feasible, but for a larger boat a single major setback can mean the end of the dream and a large financial loss.

There are boatyards around the world filled with neglected boats. If you don't have one locally a Google search on "Field of Broken Dreams" + yacht should find a few.

[Brent Swain]

Some of these pitfalls can be avoided by aquiring and building as much as possible, before staring the hull. For that one doesn't need a building site , nor a lot of commitment.It will either prevent the loss of the dream, or convince you to size it down a bit.