Opinions, advice sought...

[pauldeeb]

I'm in the market for a liveaboard cruising boat. Could anyone give me opinions on any of the following:

Gulfstar 50 Ketch
Hans Christian 43 Ketch
Tiyana 42
Oyster 43
Passport 42

Thanks very much, all help is greatly appreciated.

Pauk

[rebel heart]

Not sure when the Hans Christian 43 was made, but I have a 36 from 1975 (sloop). I'd pick a valiant over it, but that's about it. The Tayana is probably the same boat.

Do you have years for them? That's a big part.

[pauldeeb]

The Hans Christian is a 1983. From the Photos it looks immaculate, I am somewhat concerned about the teak decks, only due to what I have read.

Thanks,

Paul

[rebel heart]

My teak decks are ducky; I wouldn't dismiss it on that account alone. It's not *that* much work to be honest. A lot of people just want to sail every other weekend, and if they have to do a week or two of hard labor a year they consider it "a lot of work".

The bigger concern is how well they were cared for. If you have nice thick teak planks still, you're sitting pretty.

Hans Christians are wonderful boats. Absolutely wonderful. Ours is a 1975, and I'm continually amazed at the quality of construction and beneficial design concepts.

[henryk]

After looking and doing lots of research I settled with Tayana . For the quality and capability as an offshore boat , it was hard to fined any thing similar for that money . You can get one nicely outfitted for under $1400000 . On google's group there is very active Tayana Owner Group . Lots of help and info there.
Good luck with the search .

[Ex-Calif]

"You can get one nicely outfitted for under $1,400,000 ."

A million four sure eats into the beer budget ;-)

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

"You can get one nicely outfitted for under $1,400,000 ."

A million four sure eats into the beer budget ;-)

Thats far to expensive to be able to afford beer at all! You'd have to drink Champagne!

[pauldeeb]

Thanks to all of you. We looked at a Gulfstar 50 ketch, which although roomy and supplied with every known amenity, impressed me little with respect to the construction, particularly when I started looking behind panels etc. The Oyster seemed better equipped yet had interior joinery and cabinet work that made me think of cheap office furniture.

The most impressive boats by far were the Hans Christian 43 Ketch and the Tanaya 43 cutter. My heart was bouncing around over the Hans Christian as it it had much of the romance and emotional appeal of an all wood boat, it also seemed well constructed and substantial. Priscilla did not like the interior layout at all and though that the design made too many sacrifices to aesthetics. On this point I am somewhat forced to agree, however I can easily be won over with aesthetic considerations.

We both loved the Tanaya, it seemed to be chock full of many thoughtful design details and every single thing on the boat seemed to be rigorously overbuilt. The only thing that I dislike about the boat is the relatively tiny cockpit that has no protection from the sun. It also seems, due to the way in which the boom is rigged that it would be very difficult to change this (incorporating a bimini for example).

The broker recommended an Island Packet 40 and we are going to look at this today, however my heart is still back with HC ketch.

All of mysailing experience is in the Chesapeake Bay (no blue water at all) and all of my experience is also given my Columbia C36 (fin keel spade rudder, sloop rig). I would very much appreciate opinions on Ketch and cutter rigs, also full keels and the mostly full keel designs.

Thanks again for the help.

Paul

[Seeratlas]

Paul, get out and sail on the boats you're looking at, the HC moves LOT differently than the Tayana. There are also a number of Bristols on the market in the 40 to 45 foot range. If you like the romantic look of the HC, you might check out some of the less expensive but very strong other Taiwanese boats, i.e. the Formosa, the Masons (beautiful boats) and there was a series of HC like boats from a decent yard called the "Spindrift's"...43's i think. Like with any boat, you'll want to see and hear everything "run", sail a bit, motor a bit, and make sure your agreement includes provision for a full survey.

Btw, just so you know, we had a nice Columbia I think 45 in the yard get sold a few weeks ago for something like 25,000.00. Fully cruise equipped, even sails in good condition. Just needed some exterior cleaning and polish as had been sitting in the yard last few years waiting for a new owner. Accordingly, if your budget is 150'ish, there are a LOT of boats you should be looking at in this depressed market.

seer

[mike d.]

H/C boats are very well designed and built the thing you have to watch out for is the fuel tanks which are situated below the sole in the keel cavity. were/are known for leaking as they got older because they were made of iron. looked at a H/C down in Annap. a while ago for sale for a couple yrs.for 125k. tanks were shot and let go so long that the fuel ate thru the bedding comp. for the thru-hulls and was leaking on the ground. obviously not good. but fixable with a lot of work, and the use of bladders.

[pauldeeb]

Do you remember the name of this boat? The ont that we were looking at was in Annapolis as well. Was the problem with the fuel tanks revealed on survey?

Best,
Paul

[pauldeeb]

Thanks and obviously good advice. I have heard much of the "depressed market" for boats. When looking at them is there anyway of determining how much less than there advertised price might be expected, or do you simply make offers? Although I've been sailing for several years I have only bought one boat. Any advice on buying boats, dealing with brokers etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Paul

[Joli]

It's a buyers market. If the boat has been sitting for a while, 1~2 years offer 65% to 75% of the asking price or look at what sisters have sold for recently and offer that price. Ask the broker about the circumstances, maybe health, divorce, or a business downturn require a quick sale?

I think as the new boat market goes in the tank the used boat market will recover and the window for very good deals will go away.

With the dollar so weak I am seeing foreign buyers come to the US. This fall, a 50 in our marina was being prepped to go to the UK, it was an old aluminum racer that was going to be redone as a racer cruiser.

Originally Posted by pauldeeb

Thanks and obviously good advice. I have heard much of the "depressed market" for boats. When looking at them is there anyway of determining how much less than there advertised price might be expected, or do you simply make offers? Although I've been sailing for several years I have only bought one boat. Any advice on buying boats, dealing with brokers etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Paul

[jdoe71]

Originally Posted by pauldeeb

Thanks and obviously good advice. I have heard much of the "depressed market" for boats. When looking at them is there anyway of determining how much less than there advertised price might be expected, or do you simply make offers? Although I've been sailing for several years I have only bought one boat. Any advice on buying boats, dealing with brokers etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Paul

When we bought our boat I told the broker I had an offer, I didn't want to insult the seller because we knew what he had paid for it a year earlier, but it was what we felt the boat should sell for given the market at that time and the time of year. The broker said in his opinion the first offer is the best offer and don't worry about insulting anyone. We got the boat for 33% less than what the seller had paid for it. There were other circumstances involved that caused the price to go that low but it has been a buyers' market for some time now.

[mike d.]

Paul the boats name was September Song she was mod. fin keel with skeg hung rudder
she had a gen set, fairly new sails at the time 2000 or 01 i think. a couple in New York city owned her. she was very well set up. as to the tanks the broker told me that they were bad and that was why she wasn't selling. also the yard she was in would let her be moved until some payed for the fuel clean up. the tanks would have to have their tops cut out completely and smoothed and then you could add bladders. this is of coarse after you was the fuel and smell out of the bilge. cats had made a home in her for a couple of yrs. and you would have to redo the interior fabric to get rid of the smell etc.