Opinions, advice sought...

[Nauticatarcher]

Originally Posted by pauldeeb

Thanks and obviously good advice. I have heard much of the "depressed market" for boats. When looking at them is there anyway of determining how much less than there advertised price might be expected, or do you simply make offers? Although I've been sailing for several years I have only bought one boat. Any advice on buying boats, dealing with brokers etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Paul

when looking at boats I always knock 20% off asking price and the go down from there depending on what shows upn at survey etc, but then again one of the best pieces of advice given to me by my Father years ago was if someone is selling something and asking a fair price dont insult them by trying to screw the price down unreasonably, best deal is where buyer and seller both have a smile on there face at closing

[jdoe71]

Originally Posted by Nauticatarcher

best deal is where buyer and seller both have a smile on there face at closing

A real estate agent who sold a house for us once said the opposite, the best deal is where both the buyer and seller are a bit pissed. But I suppose ultimately it means the same thing. I know I was pissed in that deal, don't think the buyer was though! Win some, lose some.

[Seeratlas]

No offense, but if you're buying, seems to me the best deal is the most boat for the least money. It's not your responsibility to overpay because the seller either :1. overpaid himself, or 2. let the boat's condition slip to where the market value falls substantially below what it otherwise would have been.

It's also not your fault the mortgage market tanked, and that has similarly caused a depression in the boat market. You are the buyer, you can pay whatever you want to pay, just don't forget the costs in correcting all the problems an otherwise nice boat might have, as well as the outfitting costs involved in getting her ready for the round a bout.


Now, if you're selling...well today is not a good day, UNLESS, you are selling to the wealthy who seem not to mind nor even notice the periodic swings in the markets. And, in any event, you don't have to sell just because someone offers.

Lastly, the best business advice I ever heard was this:

"In business you almost never get what you deserve, you get only what you can negotiate."



seer

[Pblais]

I have heard much of the "depressed market" for boats. When looking at them is there anyway of determining how much less than there advertised price might be expected, or do you simply make offers?

There is no way except to make a serious offer in writing and attach a check. Conversations can then begin. Even if the offer is rejected it begins the conversation. You do need to understand what the boat is worth on your own before you begin. A seller would know that much if they really meant to sell the boat.

Some boats are always (and only) for sale at a high price. They really are not for sale. Most brokers can avoid those clients. The offer sorts out who is just foolin around. A lot of would be buyers don't really want to buy either they just like to pretend they are buying a boat. The offer really says you mean to deal more than the actual price. It should be serious even if not generous. Be respectful and being nice really does matter.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Pblais

There is no way except to make a serious offer in writing and attach a check.

A check (cheque in our language) may not be enough as I am told it needs to be an actual transfer. Thats time consuming (and expensive) for international buyers. Remember my money needs to be converted in and out and the commission is not small. My bank says it takes almost a working week to do the transfer. If I wish to negotiate on more than one boat then they must be a week apart. Even then I could put out 3 offers paying 10% each.........
see the problems?

[Seeratlas]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

A check (cheque in our language) may not be enough as I am told it needs to be an actual transfer. Thats time consuming (and expensive) for international buyers. Remember my money needs to be converted in and out and the commission is not small. My bank says it takes almost a working week to do the transfer. If I wish to negotiate on more than one boat then they must be a week apart. Even then I could put out 3 offers paying 10% each.........
see the problems?

I would talk to your bank about a provisional letter of credit. Any seller who won't accept that as a deposit isn't trying to sell a boat. I helped my father thru the contracting, construction, transportation, commissioning and delivery of his his boat from a yard in Taiwan. They are notoriously 'careful' in their financial dealings and everything was handled with LC's without hiccups.

seer

one other thing, timing is everything. Price can change with the mood of the seller, and or the appearance of the yard bill for another month of storage/dockage etc. In the states you have a few months before TAX TIME when any extra cash might begin looking pretty good to a seller.

[pauldeeb]

Seriously, to all of you for the advice. I have found this forum to be of enormous help if, for no other reason than providing some peace of mind that I'm going about this in an intelligent way.

Our purchase will be a cash sale, we've saved up $150,000 and could probably stretch to 200,000 with a small loan. It's taken awhile to save this amount and I think that it's fair to say that we aren't anxious to part with it. We intend to wait not only for the right boat but also for the right deal.

I've read a great deal about the "depressed" boat market and indeed have encountered several situations so far where the broker has clearly indicated that boats listed at 135k could be had for 100 or less. There are also a proliferation of ads tagged with "motivated to sell". It's difficult to know how to respond in these circumstances as we have just begun looking and have little experience navigating the process of these negotiations.

I don't really worry to much about insulting someone as they can always refuse an offer. Similarly some boats seem to be almost a reverse insult as many are insanely priced and have significant problems.

Does anyone know how the commision process works for a broker? Is it more similar to a car or a house? Are there "buyers agents" as in real estate, someone that I pay who is responsible to my interests?

Again many thanks,

Paul

[Joli]

Typically the brokers percentage will be included in the sale price, they work for the seller. You can hire a pro to help. Bob Perry is or has been available for a flat fee as an advisor to buyers and I'm sure there are others.

Robert H Perry Yachts Designers Inc. Home Page

Originally Posted by pauldeeb

Seriously, to all of you for the advice. I have found this forum to be of enormous help if, for no other reason than providing some peace of mind that I'm going about this in an intelligent way.

Our purchase will be a cash sale, we've saved up $150,000 and could probably stretch to 200,000 with a small loan. It's taken awhile to save this amount and I think that it's fair to say that we aren't anxious to part with it. We intend to wait not only for the right boat but also for the right deal.

I've read a great deal about the "depressed" boat market and indeed have encountered several situations so far where the broker has clearly indicated that boats listed at 135k could be had for 100 or less. There are also a proliferation of ads tagged with "motivated to sell". It's difficult to know how to respond in these circumstances as we have just begun looking and have little experience navigating the process of these negotiations.

I don't really worry to much about insulting someone as they can always refuse an offer. Similarly some boats seem to be almost a reverse insult as many are insanely priced and have significant problems.

Does anyone know how the commision process works for a broker? Is it more similar to a car or a house? Are there "buyers agents" as in real estate, someone that I pay who is responsible to my interests?

Again many thanks,

Paul