Opinion on Cape George 36

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by pequod

...the bilge pump happened to be cycling on. I was surprised. I checked the bilge and indeed there was water and what looked like diesel....
some of the bungs were still wet and had a dark streak around them The bowsprit has indeed been painted...
looked to be moisture near some of the ports in the cabin. There were cracks in the new paint...
I do not want a maintenance nightmare...

Wow! Yeah, maybe you should be looking at something much more plasticky. Good luck with your search.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Wow! Yeah, maybe you should be looking at something much more plasticky. Good luck with your search.

Sometimes plastic is good

[CarinaPDX]

The wet plugs are probably not an issue, just need to be replaced. This is normal. If left too long water can work its way inside the deck but I doubt this is happening here.

There is no way you are going to know the condition of this boat without hiring a very good surveyor. She looks in great shape but looks can be deceiving, or not. So if you are serious you need to make an offer contingent on the survey, then pony up for the survey. There really is no other way.

You don't have to be a woodworker to have a boat like this - she is already complete. You do need to be serious about investing a substantial amount of time in maintenance. If you have time and like just fussing about with boats then go for it. If time is precious and you want to cruise with a minimum of effort go for a boat with a minimum of wood. So the next step should be some navel gazing.

Greg

[buzzstar]

The price is too high even without your findings. If you could negotiate it to a more appropriate price, subject to survey.... But in the end it is your money, your needs, your wants, and your money (intentional duplication of the word). May you make the correct decision for your situation.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

The price is too high even without your findings.

Compared to fiberglass production boats the price is high, but this is not one of those. This is a custom boat built in limited numbers at a very high cost due to both quality materials and labor. There were few of them made, compared to production boats, and still fewer that were completed to this level by Cecil and his yard. The quality ones come on the market only rarely, as owners tend to keep them a long time. So I believe (and have good reason to) that this is a fair asking price for this boat, having been recently repowered and with a lot of quality equipment. Conjecture on the quality of sails and such is just that - not fact. The only way to know if this boat is as good as it looks is to pay for a quality survey.

If you are still interested after considering the maintenance requirements you might first contact the owner, or broker, and see if the most recent survey is available for you to look at. If not, then try to have a private talk with the owner (do that anyway). Many owners of boats like this are intimately familiar with the condition and will gladly share it; everyone understands that you will still pay for a survey if you want to proceed but this can help clarify the situation before any money changes hands.

Greg

[Terra Nova]

DX--I agree that the asking price is in the right range for this very special boat. The right buyer should be a knowledgeable and experienced owner who can truly appreciate such a treasure and who will have the means and the know-how to keep it maintained.

[ALAIN97133]

Originally Posted by first wind

Before you sing the praise of fin keel boats, you should read "Seaworthiness, the Forgotten Factor".

Thanks, I've ordered the book from Amazon. In the meantime, I'd like to remind you that typical older full keel sailboat such as "Joshua" -a full keel steel ketch built like a Sherman tank- was roll over & over during Moitessier 1 & 1/2 solo round the world sailing while the first & second 2012/2013 IMOCA 60' cutters were able to zoom around the world in 78 days (As a reminder, Knox-Johnston did it in 312 days in 1968 with his teak 32' ketch).
But the interesting point is that full keel while less efficient compare to fin keel- as wing to go upwind -when we need them- are very efficient to trip over when going downwind -when we don't need them:
Full or fin keel? - Page 10 - SailNet Community
I've owned both full keel (Camper & Nicholson 31**) and fin keel sailboats (Dufour 27, Chance 33, Ericson 34) but my dream sailboat is a full centerboard sailboat where I can lower the centerboard when I need it & raise it when I don't, even if it means a little more maintenance.
Full keel gurus will remind you of the loss of 4 sailors aboard Cheeki Rafiki a Beneteau 40.7 found upside down without its fin keel... but remember that CR had grounded several time over a 4 year period What happened to Cheeki Rafiki? Key findings from the official Marine Accident Investigation Branch report - Yachting World
**Something I really enjoyed in my Camper & Nicholson full keel 31 footer is the huge fresh water tank between the led balast & the cabin floor: With a big round access hatch, we were able to clean the tank & keep the fresh water fresh & excellent

[Smokeys Kitchen]

Not a CG owner but ..... A PSC owner.

The wife and I did not want any maintenance nightmares either and the PSC certainly has enough wood for us to really like the looks without having to worry about the decks. Yes I realize these are two different type of boats, totally custom vs higher end production, but the PSC does fit our bill for many reasons. Easy enough to day sail or coastal cruise, handles reasonable well when docking, well built (read no leaks or wood frame), able to go to sea and do ocean passages if we choose, and finally a boat we like to look at and be in.

In the end, for us, it amounted to how much time we wanted to spend working on the boat (which we will have to do) vs how much time we wanted to be cruising and exploring. Like others have said here, you have to choose as it is your $$ and your time on the boat.

[Paul J. Nolan]

Originally Posted by Benz

(Lyle Hess' Falmouth 34 might be the loveliest thing ever designed, but Bill Atkins was pretty good too.)

Actually, it was Billy Atkin.

Paul

[fatherchronica]

We have had a Cape George 36 for 3 years. Ours is a pilothouse that was finished from a bare hull and cabin. We love it. I have had 3 back surgeries and so decided on a full keel to cruise and live aboard. Our previous boat was an equal length Bill Lee design and could pound pretty good when she wanted to. 4 days after buying Mana, my son, a non sailor and I left Seattle in mid October to try to beat the weather south to Oxnard, Cal. 90 miles west of Neah Bay the weather went from 0 kts to sustained 55 kts, with bigger gusts, for over 5 hours. It was 1:00 a.m. I have no clue how big the waves were, but the ocean looked like a zebra as every sea broke in long crashes. I was a week and a half from 60 years old and it took me 3 hours to lower the 3 sails. The jib took me half of that time as I was underwater for half of every minute. When the sails were down and the companionway doors screwed back on I put Mana in neutral and let her lie ahull for 4 hours. She was like a seabird sleeping on gentle waves. A year later we were in a gale above Isla Cedros near our younger friends who were in a Pacific Seacraft 31. That time it was 45 kts and not huge seas, but washing machine like seas. Our friends wife was so scared their world cruise plans ended then. I can't say that our boat was kindlier or that her fear threshold was lower. I have not spoken to them in a year and a half and for all I know, and hope, they are continuing. Also let me say that the two days after that first storm we made 172 miles and 154 miles and hit 13.8 kts surfing down largish seas. Again, we love our boat and trust her implicitly.

[Cheechako]

Ahh yes, I too was in a gale for two days from south of San Diego to Cedros. Big seas but fortunately behind us or off the quarter. Your CG sounds like a sweet boat.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by ALAIN97133

Thanks, I've ordered the book from Amazon. In the meantime, I'd like to remind you that typical older full keel sailboat such as "Joshua" -a full keel steel ketch built like a Sherman tank- was roll over & over during Moitessier 1 & 1/2 solo round the world sailing while the first & second 2012/2013 IMOCA 60' cutters were able to zoom around the world in 78 days (As a reminder, Knox-Johnston did it in 312 days in 1968 with his teak 32' ketch).

I don't recall Joshua or Suhaili being rolled in the golden globe. Even though the boats spent 4 (or more) times as long in the southern ocean as the modern IMOCA 60's do. Both RKJ & BM got knocked down, but not inverted. If I recall correctly the only boat to capsize was Galway Blazer, a light disp fin keeled junk rigged boat.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Guy

You sound like another bookworm. Do you think many people actually sail like that?

i think everyone has read the Pardeys' books or at least read about them. while, admittedly, they are at the extreme of simplicity, there are people who do elect to keep it simple. there are also a lot of people with enough money or credit who like doing (or paying for) repairs to complex, less reliable systems while they are at exotic ports of call.

it's kind of like there are two different cruising cultures. one, you might call sea gypsies. people of moderate to low money flow that opt to cruise and voyage and live aboard low budget simple sturdy
boats. the other, the more moneyed class of cruisers that likes to take the comforts of land to sea with them and have the cash to pay for the constant upkeep.

there are enough people besides the Pardeys who have written books or kept blogs or vlogs of their simpler cruising life to show that simple cruising is not a white rhino.

i think people tend to take their land lifestyles on the water with them.

people who travel over the countryside in air conditioned, high dollar 5th wheelers and who live in big fancy houses aren't likely to sail simple boats and live simply on the water.

those of us who have lived frugal simple lives and travel on land by tying their duffelbag on the back of their hardtail choppers, with the bag containing more tools and spare parts than clothes so they can
be self sufficient while on the road, aren't likely to want or need all the expensive fancy bings and whistles and luxuries in a sailboat.

to each his own. stuff owns you and the more stuff you have the more bound you are. then again, freedom gained by simplicity isn't as comfortable. life is full of trade offs.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by ALAIN97133

Thanks, I've ordered the book from Amazon. In the meantime, I'd like to remind you that typical older full keel sailboat such as "Joshua" -a full keel steel ketch built like a Sherman tank- was roll over & over during Moitessier 1 & 1/2 solo round the world sailing while the first & second 2012/2013 IMOCA 60' cutters were able to zoom around the world in 78 days (As a reminder, Knox-Johnston did it in 312 days in 1968 with his teak 32' ketch).
But the interesting point is that full keel while less efficient compare to fin keel- as wing to go upwind -when we need them- are very efficient to trip over when going downwind -when we don't need them:
Full or fin keel? - Page 10 - SailNet Community
I've owned both full keel (Camper & Nicholson 31**) and fin keel sailboats (Dufour 27, Chance 33, Ericson 34) but my dream sailboat is a full centerboard sailboat where I can lower the centerboard when I need it & raise it when I don't, even if it means a little more maintenance.
Full keel gurus will remind you of the loss of 4 sailors aboard Cheeki Rafiki a Beneteau 40.7 found upside down without its fin keel... but remember that CR had grounded several time over a 4 year period What happened to Cheeki Rafiki? Key findings from the official Marine Accident Investigation Branch report - Yachting World
**Something I really enjoyed in my Camper & Nicholson full keel 31 footer is the huge fresh water tank between the led balast & the cabin floor: With a big round access hatch, we were able to clean the tank & keep the fresh water fresh & excellent

i'm not going to argue with you. read the book. he has enough historical evidence and science to argue his own point.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Guy

You sound like another bookworm. Do you think many people actually sail like that?

by the way, i refer you to the link in post 10 of this thread.