ocean cruising boats list

[Hoodsail]

Sofia; Frankly I love sailboats, regardless of their age. I'm addicted, evidence being I walked around my boat's yard last wkend inspecting all the sailboats on the hard, patting the hulls of some, checking out the gelcoats on others, then walked to my boat. She's 42 yrs old and thankfully its Winter here so you cant smell the holding tank! Not mold, but definitely ca-ca...just figured out that... she's built like a bricks...t house; hence the smell!!
Only owned two keel boats so regarding ocean cruising - my Catalina 27 not (but by design) and my Bristol 35.5 most definitely.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Really?

Which one?

Can it pass the test to do the Fastnet race?

Do not be silly you ;-)


You and I know that we are not sending cruisers, nor cruising boats, into things like that Fastnet race. In fact, we avoid sending racers (=sailors) into this kind of conditions these days. Note how big races delay starts when the forecast is that bad.



And we both know that a Contessa 32 did fine and arrived safely back home.


And, yes, if I were to chose, I would rather be in a Figaro boat in the Fastnet than in any boats like a small HR, Bristol or similar small, slow craft. Including ours.


Have you been onboard a Figaro yet?



Boats like Mini, Pogo, Figaro should not be believed to be similar to boats like Grimalkin. They make excellent,fast and safe cruising tools (for the discerning cruiser, of course).


b.

[Cayuse51]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

"Light" is usually not a desired quality one seeks in ocean cruising boats.

I would say light is exactly what you want in the ocean. More days sailing, less motoring, shorter passages, easier to handle, lighter loads, and other good attributes. Our boat is suprisingly fast in big winds and waves with little sail area to deal with.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Do not be silly you ;-)


You and I know that we are not sending cruisers, nor cruising boats, into things like that Fastnet race. In fact, we avoid sending racers (=sailors) into this kind of conditions these days. Note how big races delay starts when the forecast is that bad.



And we both know that a Contessa 32 did fine and arrived safely back home.


And, yes, if I were to chose, I would rather be in a Figaro boat in the Fastnet than in any boats like a small HR, Bristol or similar small, slow craft. Including ours.


Have you been onboard a Figaro yet?



Boats like Mini, Pogo, Figaro should not be believed to be similar to boats like Grimalkin. They make excellent,fast and safe cruising tools (for the discerning cruiser, of course).


b.

It wasn't A Contessa 32 that finished the race in one piece....it was a whole bloody fleet of them. So much so that when they were doing the post mortem on desirable qualities in offshore yachts they chose the Contessa 32 as the benchmark boat that all others were compared to. The Contessa 32 has sailed wrong way around Cape Horn and Southern Ocean and has pretty much been there and done that. Wonderful little boat.

[Hoodsail]

If you're talking post-Fastnet race boats, go to the folks who wrote the book on the blue water boat characteristics considering the carnage from that event, "Desirable & Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts" by CCA. Premiere designers, riggers, etc review modern construction techniques (circa 1987), spars, rigging, sails, and auxiliary equipment, and describes five good boat...enjoy

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Do not be silly you ;-)

You and I know that we are not sending cruisers, nor cruising boats, into things like that Fastnet race. In fact, we avoid sending racers (=sailors) into this kind of conditions these days. Note how big races delay starts when the forecast is that bad.


And we both know that a Contessa 32 did fine and arrived safely back home.


And, yes, if I were to chose, I would rather be in a Figaro boat in the Fastnet than in any boats like a small HR, Bristol or similar small, slow craft. Including ours.


Have you been onboard a Figaro yet?



Boats like Mini, Pogo, Figaro should not be believed to be similar to boats like Grimalkin. They make excellent,fast and safe cruising tools (for the discerning cruiser, of course).


b.

I'm sure the Figaro is a fine fast boat, but with it's high capsize screening formula number, it doesn't qualify to race the Fastnet.

(unless they have changed the Capsize Screening Formula back to above 2 as it was in 1979 and before. We can definitely "see" bad weather coming much faster these days than back then)

I also think boats like the Contessa 32 and also the Bristol 27 are much more seaworthy. Some call the Contessa 32 a submarine as it is so low in the water.

The Bristol 27 also sits very low in the water and there actually seems to be more boat below the waterline than above

But I'm thinking you already know all this. You are just super stoked about these newer Figaro Boats and maybe their speed. Their SA/Disp is really high at 27.75 plus a 40' + mast on 30' boat!

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/figaro-solo-beneteau

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/contessa-32

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/bristol-27

[slug]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I'm sure the Figaro is a fine fast boat, but with it's high capsize screening formula number, it doesn't qualify to race the Fastnet.

(unless they have changed the Capsize Screening Formula back to above 2 as it was in 1979 and before. We can definitely "see" bad weather coming much faster these days than back then)

I also think boats like the Contessa 32 and also the Bristol 27 are much more seaworthy. Some call the Contessa 32 a submarine as it is so low in the water.

The Bristol 27 also sits very low in the water and there actually seems to be more boat below the waterline than above

But I'm thinking you already know all this. You are just super stoked about these newer Figaro Boats and maybe their speed. Their SA/Disp is really high at 27.75 plus a 40' + mast on 30' boat!

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/figaro-solo-beneteau

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/contessa-32

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/bristol-27

Those oceanic light displacement boats like the 40
Or figaro. are indeed superior engineering and construction

The problem is that all boats must sail at designed displacement

This is very challenging for a light displacement boat used as a cruiser

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by passage_paul

As I continue to research and fine tune a shopping/review list I came across what I think is a very good website that may help others that are new and shopping around for a boat that will make ocean crossings.

mahina.com/cruise.html

about 3/4 way down is this fellows list. It has many boats and some great notes about positives and negatives.

This guy has quite the resume so I assume he has a pretty good idea of whats up, 38 years and 332k nm,,, what a blessed life that must be!

Mostly posted here for the benefit of new folks out looking for long haul home but may be of benefit for old timers looking to switch it up.


I was also pleased to see that most of the suggestions folks here on the forum gave to me are also listed. Thanks for not leading me astray..!!

This guy is like everyone else in his naming what he knows. It makes for smart writing but not necessarily accurate writing. I would not take anyone as the be all and end all in this decision as I've heard from people with vastly better resumes in areas relevant to me say much different. If you need to be told you probably don't know enough to listen anyway.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I'm sure the Figaro is a fine fast boat, but with it's high capsize screening formula number, it doesn't qualify to race the Fastnet.


(...)

This only proves how stupid and useless the formula is. Eh?


Have you ever looked up the actual formulation? Did you notice some very vital design factor has been completely omitted in that formula? I bet you did.


And, otherwise, I do not think qualifying or not for the Fastnet, makes a boat 'best/wors boat for the cruiser'. And this is what the original list is all about.


BTW how the heck do they enter with Open 40, VOR and IMOCAs in this Fastnet thing then? These do not have their CS result any better than a Figaro! And in fact, often quite worse.


And, lastly, can you pls link to the Fastnet race rule that names the minimum CS level. I browsed their rules a bit and failed to spot this point!


Look at the original list again:


- when was it last updated ?
- has old, no longer produced boats been taken out ?
- has any new designs been added in the last 20 years ?
- if so, what is the % of the recent / vs. ancient design there?


etc etc.


You know we are talking the same thing and we are actually on the same page. And likely we own similar boats ourselves too.


Just that I do not say old cruising tubs, designed in the 60'ies and out of production in the 80'ies are better than modern day racers. Just look at marine accidents. Most relate to crusing boats, fewer to racers.


A 40 years old tool is just that. An old tool. On a public road in any regulated country, you would be no longer allowed to ride one.



b.

[barnakiel]

BTW no Bavaria, Jeanneau or Benneteau on the list?



Why? Do they not have sufficient CS numbers too? Or are these 'too European'?



It is an outdated, biased list in today's context. I think it was 100% relevant WHEN IT WAS ORIGINALLY CREATED.


Fine that it exists but I would not pay much attention to it. Very few cruisers have such boats. Most cruising today is done in modern boats from mass market manufacturers. Here, in Europe, they will be Bava, Bene, Jeann, Elan, Hanse, etc.


Maybe out there in the US boats like IP or Deerfoot are relevant. But I have only ever met 3 Deerfoots far and out. And two of these were permanently docked.


We met countless normal boats anywhere. (Sure, we have not sailed Antarctic not the NW passage).


Read that list, browse the boats, just do not hang up on what some people 30 years ago found relevant. The world has moved on and those noble boats become old, scarce and much as they may or may not be safe and comfortable craft, they are no longer what you are likely to be spending your cruising days in the next 10 years or beyond.


I am not bashing. Rather pointing a finger in new directions.



Love and greets to all community,
b.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

This only proves how stupid and useless the formula is. Eh?


Have you ever looked up the actual formulation? Did you notice some very vital design factor has been completely omitted in that formula? I bet you did.


And, otherwise, I do not think qualifying or not for the Fastnet, makes a boat 'best/wors boat for the cruiser'. And this is what the original list is all about.


BTW how the heck do they enter with Open 40, VOR and IMOCAs in this Fastnet thing then? These do not have their CS result any better than a Figaro! And in fact, often quite worse.


And, lastly, can you pls link to the Fastnet race rule that names the minimum CS level. I browsed their rules a bit and failed to spot this point!


Look at the original list again:


- when was it last updated ?
- has old, no longer produced boats been taken out ?
- has any new designs been added in the last 20 years ?
- if so, what is the % of the recent / vs. ancient design there?


etc etc.


You know we are talking the same thing and we are actually on the same page. And likely we own similar boats ourselves too.


Just that I do not say old cruising tubs, designed in the 60'ies and out of production in the 80'ies are better than modern day racers. Just look at marine accidents. Most relate to crusing boats, fewer to racers.


A 40 years old tool is just that. An old tool. On a public road in any regulated country, you would be no longer allowed to ride one.



b.

Like I said above, things may have changed since post 1979 since today we can see bad weather coming from way off.

I just knew the CSF was inexact but was "associated" with the race for many years.

I'm definitely not saying the old boats are better. I have said especially recently that I am really more of a fin keel / spade rudder type sailor than full keel, but it's what I have and for what I do shaving off 20 minutes on a trip/cruise is not that important

Plus with my 8' beam it can still get exciting when the wind is up

Also, I take a lot of chances in shallow water that my Bristol 27 tank can handle if I strike the bottom at speed......up here anyway. With only 19.75' of water line I take every short cut I can especially if I'm in a hurry

I definitely wouldn't sail like that on a boat with a bolted on deep fin keel

[Macblaze]

I consult the Mahani list often just help separate wheat and chaf. Naysayers can just go "sit on it." FWIW, John Kretschmer used to have a list as well but it disappeared with his site redesign. You can find it on the wayback machine though :https://web.archive.org/web/20180327.../bluewater.htm

There are a few more here and there...

[passage_paul]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

This guy is like everyone else in his naming what he knows. It makes for smart writing but not necessarily accurate writing. I would not take anyone as the be all and end all in this decision as I've heard from people with vastly better resumes in areas relevant to me say much different. If you need to be told you probably don't know enough to listen anyway.

THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT.. The list is for newbies... for folks looking to develop from. Did you miss that over 4 pages????



It is a primer.. NOT for pros such as yourself... but thanks for the 1/2 cent contribution to the thread.

[passage_paul]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

I consult the Mahani list often just help separate wheat and chaf. Naysayers can just go "sit on it." FWIW, John Kretschmer used to have a list as well but it disappeared with his site redesign. You can find it on the wayback machine though :https://web.archive.org/web/20180327.../bluewater.htm

There are a few more here and there...

Thanks for understanding Macblaze that this list here is just a primer and idea creator for folks just looking around seeking to expand awareness.


I can't believe all the "pros" that have commented and seem sore that their boat type isn't listed. I have no idea why they would even find the thread of interest to approach in the first place.


Thanks for the additional LIST!!.....

[passage_paul]

"Read that list, browse the boats, just do not hang up on what some people 30 years ago found relevant."




It is the reason of the list and post.. to serve as a way to get wheels turning for new folks...
Great point sir.


It should also be noted that many new folks do not have 100's of thousands to spend out on a boat initially. From my searching I have found OLDER boats to be less expensive boats.


Is there no room for peasants on the sea? Those with modest budgets should be relegated to a trailer house in a ghetto?...


If anything, this thread has shown that economic racism is alive and well...


I am curious tho..how many folks are financing their modern state of the art vessels and using credit cards to fund their travels???