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Old 20-12-2016, 08:45   #1
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Ocean Crossing Upgrades

Hi all, I am new to the sailing world and find myself hooked on the idea of buying a production boat in the Med and sailing it around the world. I am chasing the advice of experienced cruisers or anyone that has done the same. I see that the typical production boats 36-40ft (bavaria cruisers, beneteau oceanis, jeanneau sun odyssey) can be bought in the range of 60-100K AUD, ranging from early 2000's up until 2009. It seems alot of these boats have been used for chartering and do not have all of the gear required for water sailing">blue water sailing.
I would like peoples opinions of these boats in relation to blue water sailing?
And also, what are the typical upgrades I would have to do to get them up to standard, and the costs involved of that (ball park)?
Your thoughts and information on this topic is much appreciated!
Happy sailing
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Old 20-12-2016, 08:56   #2
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

Chuck in an EPIRB and and AIS and you're good to go.



That's how I did it
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Old 20-12-2016, 09:30   #3
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by moorzy View Post

(...)

I would like peoples opinions of these boats in relation to blue water sailing?

(...)
They were not designed nor built for blue water use. Yet, some of them are used just for that. Basically, people tend to sail out in whatever they actually have.

They do not need any special upgrades but you will want to check the rudder, keel attachment, mast and rigging and the basic electric and engine systems before you go.

Many of them (I hope not all) have some nasty parameters. E.g. my friends have 3 Bavarias and they all leak badly no matter what on the deck to hull joints. I also know of at least two Jeanneaus that lost their keels. Etc. Not to say things like that do not happen on more expensive boats like Oyster (keel loss) or HR (delamination) or Amel (rig loss on a brand new one). Etc.

Basically, you get what you pay for. Same like with cars, relationships and laptops.

If you are more specific with the boat you bought, members here can be more specific with the challenges you may face.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 20-12-2016, 15:43   #4
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

Sailing La Vagabonde on Youtube just sailed away as is.
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Old 20-12-2016, 19:52   #5
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

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Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
Sailing La Vagabonde on Youtube just sailed away as is.
They've been adding a lot of upgrades along the way as they can afford them. Maybe get a windvane to compliment the electronic autopilot
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Old 20-12-2016, 21:19   #6
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

Rebuild the rig, replacing all tangs & major structural bolts, & fittings. Stays included.
Add 2nd headstay - Solent or Staysail.
Give a (good) mechanic a budget, & have him give your engine some love.
Add a serious bow roller, a Maxwell vertical windlass, & a barrel of G43 chain.
Get 2+ serious anchors of different types. Rocna, & Fortress.
Add wind vane self steering
Add solar charging
Good Main, Jib, Solent
Storm Canvas
Light Air canvas
Rebuild rudder
Add nav gear
Add safety gear
Dinghy(s), with or without outboard
Lee Cloths for bunks
Extra tankage for fuel & water
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Old 20-12-2016, 21:35   #7
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

Hi Moorzy,

I'm in the same place you are - wondering what the refit costs will be if I buy a production boat. How much is a watermaker? How much if I need to add radar?

Most of the boats listed on yachtworld are coming out of the charter fleets and are missing tons:
Radar, safety items (epirb, ais, decent liferaft, ssb, etc), watermaker, solar, wind generator, upgraded batteries, alternator... the list goes on.

I didn't really find too may resources so I started the attached spreadsheet last week to get a ball park. This way I can assess refit costs based on what the boat is missing that I will want add. The spreadsheet includes item, manufacturer, list price, and a link to the item online (Amazon, West Marine, Landfall Navigation, etc).

It's by no means complete - I have no idea what sails will cost and that will vary by boat, I haven't filled in costs for a new engine or standing rigging. But consider it a starting point.

I hope this is helpful. If there is a similar list here on CF I'd love to hear about it. I just joined so may be duplicating someone else's effort.

Oh, the spreadsheet also has tabs where I'm gathering other info like survey checklists, links to surveyors, and other info.

Cheers,
Joe
Attached Files
File Type: xls Boat equipment refit costs.xls (108.0 KB, 127 views)
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Old 20-12-2016, 21:48   #8
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

For the same price or less you may find a well found, older, ocean ready yacht. I'd look at a Brewer as an example. It will give you good comparison to move foreward...
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Old 21-12-2016, 05:53   #9
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

We did exactly what you're describing, bought a Jeanneau 45 in Greece and sailing her home to Sydney. We're currently in Panama having already sailed over 10k miles - no rudder failures or keel falling off, rig is still there...
Our boat is from the mid-nineties and I believe the construction then was more solid than some newer boats - based on newer boats I've been on. Also, we're only the 3rd owners and she's never been chartered - something to consider if you want an engine that hasn't been worked hard by eager charter crews trying to get to the next taverna!
Don't underestimate the cost of refitting, we did. On a 20 year old boat, lots of things are going to need to be replaced; pumps, windlass, deck hardware, etc. And that's just the smaller stuff, if you then add things like up to date electronics package, watermaker, generator, new dinghy + outboard and all the rest of it, it gets exxy very quickly.
Since we left Greece almost 2 years ago, we've probably spent in excess of $40k on the boat including lots new equipment, skilled labour when the job is beyond my level of expertise, and new sails.

Is worth it? Absofrickinlutely! Would we do it again? Definitely, but probably spend less on the initial purchase of the boat and keep more in the kitty for refit.
And to all the"Bluewater" crowd, we spend over 90% of time at anchor and love the space and openness of our Jeanneau compared to the confined spaces of many "proper Bluewater" boats.

One last point, get insurance! We were struck by lightning a couple weeks ago and now have thousands in repair bills, if it weren't for insurance it would be trip over for us.
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Old 21-12-2016, 06:01   #10
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Chuck in an EPIRB and and AIS and you're good to go.



That's how I did it

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
Rebuild the rig, replacing all tangs & major structural bolts, & fittings. Stays included.
Add 2nd headstay - Solent or Staysail.
Give a (good) mechanic a budget, & have him give your engine some love.
Add a serious bow roller, a Maxwell vertical windlass, & a barrel of G43 chain.
Get 2+ serious anchors of different types. Rocna, & Fortress.
Add wind vane self steering
Add solar charging
Good Main, Jib, Solent
Storm Canvas
Light Air canvas
Rebuild rudder
Add nav gear
Add safety gear
Dinghy(s), with or without outboard
Lee Cloths for bunks
Extra tankage for fuel & water
Interesting to compare and contrast these two quotes. Who would you trust the most?

One of these people has sailed around the world and lives aboard full time. One of them does not own a boat and has never circumnavigated.
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Old 21-12-2016, 06:11   #11
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Interesting to compare and contrast these two quotes. Who would you trust the most? One of these people has sailed around the world one and a half times. One of them does not own a boat and has never circumnavigated.
Actually I don't think they are that far apart and am willing to bet Mark has most of that stuff on board already, as most yachts will if they are privately owned. However, an ex charter boat could have nothing.

Worth having a look at MarkJ's videos of life at sea. I don't remember him using a watermaker for the last Atlantic crossing, same for lots of other stuff in the nice to have list but the costs will just run away and you would never set off.

Pete
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Old 21-12-2016, 06:21   #12
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Berg View Post
For the same price or less you may find a well found, older, ocean ready yacht. I'd look at a Brewer as an example. It will give you good comparison to move foreward...
I just happen to have a very well equipted Brewer 12.8 for sale in Florida!!
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Old 21-12-2016, 06:34   #13
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Actually I don't think they are that far apart and am willing to bet Mark has most of that stuff on board already, as most yachts will if they are privately owned. However, an ex charter boat could have nothing.

Worth having a look at MarkJ's videos of life at sea. I don't remember him using a watermaker for the last Atlantic crossing, same for lots of other stuff in the nice to have list but the costs will just run away and you would never set off.

Pete
Personally, I try not to make presumptions about what people think and prefer to let them speak for themselves. In this case I believe both respondents read and understood the OP and answered with their opinions accordingly. I don't know how you can say the two opinions are not that far apart.

Draw whatever conclusions you like. I just stated known facts about the respondents.
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Old 21-12-2016, 06:42   #14
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Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

Windpilot.
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Old 21-12-2016, 06:46   #15
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pirate Re: Ocean Crossing Upgrades

I'm inclined to lean MarkJ's way.. to many folks over think/panic about ocean crossings.. all you need a boat in cruise ready condition to set out on.. you'll be sailing downhill and at optimum times of the year.. the only difference is lands not in sight.
If I was planning to round the 5 Capes maybe I'd take Uncivilised approach but to be honest if I was that paranoid I'd never have done a delivery.. ever.
Every boat I've sailed would have failed most peoples ideals..
You can fix as you go.. the Med/Atlantic crossing will be your sea trial and St Martin will be your place to go for any refitting/upgrading before the Panama and Pacific.
Don't blow a wad of cash before you start on things you may not need.. tho' others may say you can't live without.. get a good surveyor and be with him for the survey.. so he cant skip things..
PS; and don't pretend your a racer.. treat the boat with respect.
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