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Old 28-04-2023, 14:59   #31
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

6'3" should not be a hindrance in Florida or the Bahamas. There are some places you will have to watch the tide and others you will have to mind the channel. You can ground with 5'6" if not careful. Live in Florida cruised with 6" draft Fl and Bahamas your years.
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Old 28-04-2023, 15:21   #32
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

Sorry if I sound a bit critical but did you buy this boat without having a survey done, that is a lift out and examine the underwater, if not everything you are saying is guesswork
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Old 28-04-2023, 17:22   #33
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

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Originally Posted by Greg theHijacke View Post
Sorry if I sound a bit critical but did you buy this boat without having a survey done, that is a lift out and examine the underwater
I had a survey performed by a respected surveyor who is a member in good standing of one of the national associations. It cost more than two tickets to Hamilton.

The survey, while comprehensive in many ways, did not include measuring the vessel's draft. The most frightening revelations (to the insurance company, at least) were that the fire extinguishers were expired, the garbage placard was missing, the macerator pump was jammed, and the cover plate for the water heater wiring was off.


The surveyor also noted that there was moisture in the rudder, which neither I nor the insurance cared much about.
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Old 28-04-2023, 18:10   #34
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

I've cruised the B'mas from one end to the other with a 6'3" draft, and can't say I've ever had a problem. Have to watch some areas here and there, and some place are simply a no go....but by and large was able to go pretty much everywhere I wanted. Got quite accustomed to the fact that I often only had 6" clear below my keel.

The Florida ICW is another matter. I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than do the ICW. Going offshore, in my opinion, is the only way to fly. The rest of the ICW is not much different for a 6'3" draft. Do-able ??...yes....if you have time on your side

A 5'6" draft only means you will run aground in 5'6" of water depth. Little difference, actually, from 6'3".
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Old 28-04-2023, 19:15   #35
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

Jammer - did you have a chance to measure both port and stbd and use the average?
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Old 29-04-2023, 07:01   #36
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

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Jammer - did you have a chance to measure both port and stbd and use the average?
I put money that measuring the watermark on the paint will be close to published draft specs. As posted already, measuring to the bootstripe is not going to be accurate, at least on 99% of the boats out there.

On the draft deal. I cruised the Bahamas with 3.5', 4' and 5'. Shoal let me take shortcuts that took miles off the course and let me anchor in surge free anchorages that 5' couldnt get close to. There are a lot of places 6' draft will just pass. Not my cup of tea but those who haven't gunkholed with shoal draft in the Bahamas are missing a piece of the pie. To each their own.
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Old 29-04-2023, 08:27   #37
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

I bet the draft was never calculated from a boat in the water. And after build boats always end up heavier than originally planned. Never seen one lighter. During construction there’s a tendency to add more fiberglass to any weak looking areas. And calculations are based on optimism resin percentage which in the year this boat was built was always overshot. And as said, keel manufacture is an in inexact science. Lead is poured into a hole in the sand

Next it’s based on “lightship” - empty tanks, no dinghy, probably no anchor and chains or sails

.You can also be sure the draft was based on salt water that would float the boat about 4” higher - more in the very salty Bahamas.
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Old 29-04-2023, 08:31   #38
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

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Jammer - did you have a chance to measure both port and stbd and use the average?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBill View Post
I put money that measuring the watermark on the paint will be close to published draft specs. As posted already, measuring to the bootstripe is not going to be accurate, at least on 99% of the boats out there.
I'm not sure why you're quoting me here, because:

A - That has nothing to do with what you quoted. That post is in reference to whether the boat is level or not, and therefore you should measure both sides and take the average regardless of what the reference line is (as long as it's the same on both sides).

B - I said the same thing, that the WL on the boat he linked to is below the bootstripe.
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Old 29-04-2023, 08:33   #39
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

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You can also be sure the draft was based on salt water that would float the boat about 4” higher - more in the very salty Bahamas.
You may want to double check that. I think it's less than an inch, probably closer to 1/2 inch.
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Old 29-04-2023, 08:48   #40
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

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Your draft is not going to be a problem in the Bahamas… Florida Keys it will be, but so is 5’ so don’t worry.

We are 6’2” and only get stuck when we are impatient waiting for tide (like at Indian Rock passage) or in the Florida Keys where you get stuck mid channel where it’s supposed to be over 7’
I am with Jedi on this. It is not going to be a problem. I know someone who sailed the Bahamas and Florida with a 7ft keel. No issues.
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Old 29-04-2023, 16:18   #41
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

We've always had 2.2m (7'2") keels since 1983. Coincidences, I guess. We don't go into places "too shallow", and we have the habit of checking the tide tables, so not touched bottom often. The deal is, though, that because we don't go into places "too shallow" for us, we don't know what we've missed. Therefore, we don't miss what we haven't seen, those places we've not been. This is not to say they aren't nice, too, just that there's a lot of geography to view, in the world, and often, it doesn't change too fast.

Jammer will have to mark his waterline then measure down to where the keel touches the ground, but he then has to measure from midships port and starboard, to the ground, then up from the ground to the ground that is the cradle and subtract that. Or, if there is a suitable drying grid in his area, he could park the boat over it, and score the paint when it starts to bounce, then leave.

Another issue connected with this is whether his wing will suck when it goes down in mud and whether or not this will be a "problem". Maybe the Tartan owners group mentioned above could help with this aspect. (Friends with a wing keel described this phenomenon when their boat was out for bottom paint.)

Jammer's new boat's wing keel may be a detriment to windward, as mentioned above, but draft isn't the only thing that will effect windward performance, sail quality and age, trim, overall displacement of the vessel once laden, whether or not he's in dirty air, all have their influence. Ultimately, he will have to decide if he wants to get the proper fin for it, or stick with the wing. It IS a whole boat; it's just not what he thought he was buying, and nobody told him. And lawyers are expen$ive.

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Old 29-04-2023, 19:03   #42
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

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The draft measured 6'3" to the bottom of the bootstripe

I haven't had a yacht yet that sat at the 'specified' draft, when I measured from the bottom of the keel to the dirty scummy line that accumulates over a few days here in the tropics - where the water actually sits. And, as pointed out by others, that is usually nowhere near my bootstripe. In my case the scumline is usually well into it.


I put that down to the specified 'draft' being the depth where the designer thinks the keel might reach, when the rigged yacht is sitting in 'average' water. By the time I added a different engine, more sails, winches, anchor chain, cruising gear, solar panels (on my later boats) davits (on one) and various items not necessary to living aboard, like refrigeration mods and personal gear, well, the poor old boat's 'scumline' was way above where the tape said it 'should be' during haulout.


It's scary how much draft we can add to some of our boats, just by changing things or living in them . .
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Old 30-04-2023, 04:18   #43
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

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I am a fool. Learn from my mistakes.


Last fall we bought our boat. Shallow keel, draws 5'4", it said in the listing. Looked kind of that way. Certainly not the 6'10" deep fin keel, besides, it has winglets.


In preparation for spring launch I took out my tape measure and measured the draft carefully. Might be 5'5" or even 5'6", I thought, and good to know for sure.


The draft measured 6'3" to the bottom of the bootstripe. Well, on the Great Lakes that's fine, and it will be several years at the soonest before we find ourselves in Florida or the Bahamas where 6'3" would be a hindrance.


No idea why Tartan put an oddball keel on it. It was the last 3800 made, and perhaps they didn't have and more of the keels they usually used available. Or maybe the buyer asked for it.



I guess I should have measured before we bought it, although, in retrospect, it probably wouldn't have changed our decision.
Lower the boot topping..or get rid of excess weight....
You can always chop of a few inches...
Maybe boat building measurements aren't set in stone?
Like god forbid my 40ft ketch measures actually 40'9" Over all.
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Old 30-04-2023, 16:37   #44
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

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I'm not sure why you're quoting me here, because:

A - That has nothing to do with what you quoted. That post is in reference to whether the boat is level or not, and therefore you should measure both sides and take the average regardless of what the reference line is (as long as it's the same on both sides).

B - I said the same thing, that the WL on the boat he linked to is below the bootstripe.
Chill out. I was only adding my thoughts to your info. It's all about measuring to get the correct draft...which has a lot to do with what you posted. Regardless, please accept my apology if my comment offended you.
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Old 30-04-2023, 19:50   #45
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Re: Not the keel I was expecting

Jammer, this is not the first time the last boat from a company is not the same as the earlier models, and if they're out of business, I don't know what recourse you have.

Maybe someone from the Tartan forum could send you the measurements from their keels, or you could locate the drawings. Over there, there may even be some performance comparisons. I'd think, if your cruising plans are basically between US and Caribbean, the shoal draft will be okay for you; however, if you plan a circumnavigation or a Pacific circle, you ultimately would probably be happier with a proper fin under you. Good luck with it, it is a heck of a disappointment.

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