No Compromises Wish List

[D328jet]

Hello all,

I'm trying to put as much thought into this post as I can knowing all the info on here and how easy it is to duplicate post someone else's questions (and how annoying that can be), so I'll try to be as specific as possible. I have read so many of your posts on various subjects for research but have never posted. Hope I don't offend.

I have fallen for the layouts and the general features overall of the older

Moody 376
MOODY 376 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

and

Moody 40/419
MOODY 40 (PRIMROSE) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
MOODY 419 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


Yes, I have read about the keg issues.

I'm wondering if I should be considering anything comparable. I know they have a great build rep, and although I have shied away from center cockpit layouts in the past, we all have to make compromises. This will be a Bahamas, Caribbean, Keys boat with the potential for crossing oceans to NZ/Fiji. I want max flexibility for travel but keeping things simple mechanically. That said, here's the wish list in no particular order...

I'm trying to keep things as mechanically simple as possible with the fewest things to break.

* is priority
- would be nice

*reputation for decent build
*37-42' (I'm 6'2 and need headroom)
*monohull
-no flat forefoot (optional)
*Scheel keel
-skeg hung rudder
*straight spreaders (not swept back)
-Yanmar engine
-no V-drive transmissions
-shaft drive
-fixed pitch prop
*no traveler in the cockpit or in front of companionway
-sloop
-cutter rig
*sugar scoop transom or similar
*no main furling anywhere!
*berths aside from v-berth and aft cabin
(an extra set of bunks somewhere or 2 aft cabins)
*metal toe rail with multiple connection points
*engine ignition/stop above the cockpit seat surface (I have seen them below)
*cockpit seats you can sleep on (good length)
*cockpit seats you can lounge on with straight back rests fore or aft
-thought of as a racer/cruiser (even loosely)
*forward facing nav station
*center sink in the galley (or close)
-easily accessed fridge (optional but would be nice for easy access for repair, as in not tucked away in a corner)
-possibly drawer or front door fridge (may have to be aftermarket, but I want a little usable counter space)
-convenient transom for solar panel arch/dinghy davit mounting
-few if any mast mounted winches or the need for such (willing to compromise)
*singlehand friendly
*no or little wood, (ESPECIALLY TEAK DECKING)
*US voltages
*generous-ish water/fuel tankage (100/50 or more respectively)
-decent storage for tools/parts
-at least two heads
*no cabin top entries
*electrical panel not near companionway

*<$100k (that's the goal anyway)

Tarton?
Pacific Seacraft?
Erickson?
Sabre?



I know I know. I'm going to have to build it probably.
Thanks for any suggestions you all may have (and your patience).
Older years are ok but don't get crazy!

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, D328jet.

[Suijin]

I personally think that any CC shorter than @ 42' forces compromises on the interior layout and room that are really unattractive. Yes you get a queen berth aft, but your passage way is usually borderline dead space.

I also don't think you're going to find a boat near what you're looking for with the traveller not in the cockpit or in front of the dodger unless it's either a CC or a Hunter, or has some sort of arch over the cockpit.

Why would you want a racer/cruiser and then put a fixed pitch prop on it? Why buy a design that's a not faster, with all the compromises that come with it, and put a fixed pitch prop on it to make it go a knot slower?

Regarding the V-drive, there are a lot of them out there and they are perfectly fine. Yes, working on some aspects of them, like the shaft seal, are a pain but they allow for a lot of the other features you're looking for.

You're not going to find the boat you're looking for for <$100k unless it's a real fixer upper. Moodys and Pacific Seacrafts in your size range are totally out of reach. And given the quality you want you're looking at a 1980's boat or at best early-mid 90's.

Frankly your priority list seems gleaned from a lot of abstracted research. The School keel for example. Why is this a priority? There are very few of them out there and they have downsides. Why is it so important to you such that you're willing to narrow the range of candidate boats by 90% for the sake of having one?

You're looking for a unicorn. You need to refine your list as every boat is a compromise. If I were you I would create a new list with 1) Must haves 2) Priorities 3) Nice to have and think hard and long about the first two categories and try and keep them as short and focused as possible. At <$100k you have to be seriously flexible.

One boat I would add to your list is the Saga 43, which ticks a whole lot of your boxes. It will be a stretch for your budget but they are coming down in price and there are a few of them on the market. There were a few build quality issues with some of them but everyone I know who has one, and I know quite a few, absolutely loves the boat.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I personally think that any CC shorter than @ 42' forces compromises on the interior layout and room that are really unattractive. Yes you get a queen berth aft, but your passage way is usually borderline dead space.

I also don't think you're going to find a boat near what you're looking for with the traveller not in the cockpit or in front of the dodger unless it's either a CC or a Hunter, or has some sort of arch over the cockpit.

Why would you want a racer/cruiser and then put a fixed pitch prop on it? Why buy a design that's a not faster, with all the compromises that come with it, and put a fixed pitch prop on it to make it go a knot slower?

Regarding the V-drive, there are a lot of them out there and they are perfectly fine. Yes, working on some aspects of them, like the shaft seal, are a pain but they allow for a lot of the other features you're looking for.

You're not going to find the boat you're looking for for <$100k unless it's a real fixer upper. Moodys and Pacific Seacrafts in your size range are totally out of reach. And given the quality you want you're looking at a 1980's boat or at best early-mid 90's.

Frankly your priority list seems gleaned from a lot of abstracted research. The School keel for example. Why is this a priority? There are very few of them out there and they have downsides. Why is it so important to you such that you're willing to narrow the range of candidate boats by 90% for the sake of having one?

You're looking for a unicorn. You need to refine your list as every boat is a compromise. If I were you I would create a new list with 1) Must haves 2) Priorities 3) Nice to have and think hard and long about the first two categories and try and keep them as short and focused as possible. At <$100k you have to be seriously flexible.

One boat I would add to your list is the Saga 43, which ticks a whole lot of your boxes. It will be a stretch for your budget but they are coming down in price and there are a few of them on the market. There were a few build quality issues with some of them but everyone I know who has one, and I know quite a few, absolutely loves the boat.

I agree with almost all the above, mainly that fact that some of the must haves like the Scheel Keel limit the potential list far too much. I read all the tech articles on the Scheel Keel when it first came out and, on paper, it sounds great. In actual use have not heard any miraculous reports of great performance, dramatically better righting or other factors compared to other similar draft designs.

Regarding center cockpit, I agree that most in the 42' range or less look somewhat boxy and lose a lot of space to the walk-through but there are exceptions. Regardless it may be worth the sacrifice if the aft cabin is strongly preferred. It is for me so I made that compromise.

[Boatguy30]

Wauquiez Amphitrite
Owned hull #105 for 4 years
Ultimate mono is your size/ price range

Also check Oyster 39. Layout different but basically same boat just smaller.

[Mirage35]

Comment made by a crew member last spring which became the running gag for the entire trip:

Every sailboat is a series of compromises.

[ArmySailor]

Good morning D328jet,

I can't speak intelligently to boat choices for you based on your list, but I would like to offer an observation about the nature of your list, which may be hindering your search.

Some of your "priorities" and "would be nice" items CAN be changed by you after acquiring a boat, some CANNOT. Why limit your search to items you can change later?

So...I'd suggest shaking up your list a bit. Items should be in categories such as:

1) "Must have - cannot change" (monohull, keel, etc)
2) "Nice to have - cannot change" (skeg protected rudder)

3) "Must have - can change myself" (110V elec)
4) "nice to have - can change myself" (fridge layout)

In theory, your first list of items, "must have, cannot change" will be the ONLY real deal breakers, in your search for a vessel, and should be a relatively short list. (and should only be those things that you have personal, proven experience that it must have. )

"The nice to have, cannot change" is your compromise area.

Everything else you can change...that's your "to do" list on the boat for tinkering, fixing, adding, preparing for voyaging

Summary: Focus on the basics and aspects of the vessel construction and layout in your search, there is a lot you can change about a boat, after that.

Good luck!

[redhead]

I say this with all friendly intent:
Name one thing in your life that hasn't involved compromises.

If you were, by chance to get exactly the boat you want right now you'd be limited. Who knows who'll you'll grow into in 5 years, or 10? What seems to be a compromise today might be on your "must have" list in a decade. I say this because it's happened to me - much good luck.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Regarding center cockpit, I agree that most in the 42' range or less look somewhat boxy and lose a lot of space to the walk-through but there are exceptions. Regardless it may be worth the sacrifice if the aft cabin is strongly preferred. It is for me so I made that compromise.

It's close, but my Westerly Oceanlord (41) was a case in point. The walk-through was an excellent twin pullman cabin with lee-cloths which made for two very easily accessible and seaworthy bunks whilst at sea. For some arrangements and combinations of people having two luxurious double cabins and a twin makes for very much better sleeping arrangements than three doubles (particularly if you're sailing with kids or with people other than just couples). And, of course, it meant that all six non-saloon berths (and indeed all nine total berths) were in rooms where more than one person at a time could comfortably sit, stand, and get changed.

[Tillsbury]

To get back to the point, though, I would urge the OP to revisit the preferences list. When planning model railways, the tradition is to think of the "givens and druthers". "Givens" are the things that you cannot change, and that must be adhered to. "Druthers" are things that you'd rather like (hence the name).

You must list your "givens" first, and you must be ruthless in minimising these. They might include number of cabins (because of the number of people travelling), or the size (because of planned ocean passages) and will very likely include the budget. Very few of your "priority" list sound like "givens" to me.

"Givens" are things that your circumstances dictate. "Druthers" are your personal choices and preferences. Be very careful how specific they are. Specifying engine manufacturer, for example, might trip you up. I recently looked at a boat that's a little old and tatty but otherwise has some very nice features. The owner had last year replaced the engine with a brand shiny new Volvo D2 and saildrive, professionally and very neatly installed. Does that count it out completely for you? It wouldn't for me.

Failing to meet a "given" will mean that you don't buy the boat even if everything else including the condition and price are excellent. For example, "no in-mast furling" is not a given. If the boat were perfect apart from this, you could always change the sail. Or, indeed, as many people have done, just get used to it. Better sailors than us have done the same (as Tom Cunliffe's recent blog describes). There are some excellent furling main systems out there, as well as the rubbish ones.

Once you have a very small "givens" list, you can start to score your potential boats based on how many of your "druthers" they meet. You will never meet all of them.

Go look at the boats that score higher for you.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

It's close, but my Westerly Oceanlord (41) was a case in point. The walk-through was an excellent twin pullman cabin with lee-cloths which made for two very easily accessible and seaworthy bunks whilst at sea. For some arrangements and combinations of people having two luxurious double cabins and a twin makes for very much better sleeping arrangements than three doubles (particularly if you're sailing with kids or with people other than just couples). And, of course, it meant that all six non-saloon berths (and indeed all nine total berths) were in rooms where more than one person at a time could comfortably sit, stand, and get changed.

In my Pearson the walk-through has cabinets and storage. Since I don't plan on sailing with a ton of people I'm ok with that. What i do miss, because the walk-through is on the port side of the cockpit and the aft head and shower (I LOVE having a separate shower stall) I have NO cockpit lockers. I really, really miss having nice big cockpit lockers.

My last center cockpit boat had no walk-through, you had to go across the cockpit to get to the aft cabin. I was fine with that because it had huge cockpit lockers.

[Tillsbury]

Always a compromise. The Westerly has none on the nav cabin side, of course, but had a ridiculously big climb-in one between galley and aft heads on the starboard side. Absolutely everything went in there, including dinghy and outboard, storm sails, every rope and fender, and still you could climb in and get stuff. But, of course, I didn't have much of a shower stall. Compromises!

[Emouchet]

I'll be curious to know what will remain from that list once you will have selected the boat.
Please let us know.

2 heads on a 37' will be challenging to found...

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by AnglaisInHull

Every boat is a series of compromises.

Some less so than others and money or lack of wants/needs closes the gap.

[bill99]

I think you have a good list of priorities.
Living where I do made me think that a lot of Americans don't realize there is the rest of the world, outside of the States.
Most of the rest of the world is 240 volt.
So bring spare kettles, toasters, hairdryers and electric tools etc that are 110vlt for when your appliances break down.
You will also have a small problem when you try to plug your 110vlt shore power cable into the 240vlt socket at the dock.