Newer boat vs older in same price range

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by icedog11

I'm making my first post and I'm really nervous about asking a stupid question. I have been doing my home work, and feel I'm really sold on Island Packet in the high 30's to mid 40 foot range or a much older Hinckley Bermuda MkIII around the same length. Prices are really very close. Is the upgrade in original manufacturing offset by the modern build of a boat built in 2005 vs. one built 1987-89. Both boats seem to fill the needs I have for a live aboard, and blue water capability. My curiosity lies in the difference in build quality that has developed over the two decade difference in the boats.

To go back to your original question, it sounds like you are assuming that newer boats benefit from newer, presumably better, construction techniques, which is not necessarily true. Some yes, some doubtful. Also many older boats were built so well the hulls are still in great shape, and will probably remain so for... who knows how long? And because they were built well and they have stout, well-proven, sea-worthy, sea-kindly, sailing designs (if old-school and not very roomy) they are considered by many experienced sailors to be well worth the expense to make them new again. I love this example from bluewaterboats.org of a total refit of a Pearson Rhodes 41 (from mid 1960s) : https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=c007ac6e98
Now why in the world would anyone go to all that expense for such an old boat?

[Highland Fling]

BACK to the POSTED TOPIC

I just re-read the listing for the Hinkley

ALLEGRO is a two owner boat that was carefully thought out during her build process and fastidiously maintained ever since. A rare opportunity to own a Hinckley B-40 of this caliber.


ALLEGRO was one of the last B40’s built and as such her trim and finish level is more like the SW42 than earlier B40’s and should be at the top of the list for anyone looking for an excellent B40. She sleeps 5 in her Dinette/Nav interior that is finished in satin with gloss highlighted varnished mahogany with white overhead and a gloss varnished teak and holly sole . ALLEGRO is for sale from her second owner and has benefited from the experience and care of both owners who continuously and meticulously maintained and upgraded her.
Recent work includes:

• New Westerbeke 55hp engine installed 2014
• Galley countertop replaced 2014
• Galley sink and faucet replaced 2014
• New engine and start batteries 2014
• Dodger canvas replaced 2010
• All cabin cushion foam and covers new in 2007.
• All brass Frigast lights removed and replaced with same style brass Xenon units with lifetime warranty 2003, Still like new
• Tempurpedic mattress 2007
• New VacuFlush head and 18-gallon holding tank 2007

SAILS and RIGGING

Hinckley fabricated aluminum spars with Navtec rod rigging and tensioner.

• Harken II headstay system
• Spinnaker (MPS) halyard
• Full spinnaker gear with pole carried onmast.
• Single line reefing system led aft to cockpit.
• Block and tackle boom vang

WINCHES:

• (2) Barient #24 STS secondary cockpit winches
• (2) Barient #28 STS primary cockpit winches
• Main mast winches for halyards
• Mizzen mast winches for halyards
• Main sheet winch on cabin top

SAILS:

• Main sail – North, fully battened Main with lazy jacks and sail cover
• 150% Genoa - Roller furling (2004)
• 105% Genoa - Roller furler (2004)
• Gennaker - with snuffer
• Mizzen sail with sail cover
• Mizzen staysail

Rod rigged (nice) I would change all the winches (for sure the primaries) to Andersen self tailing winches but then that is just me being me.

OK not a recent 2014 refit but it sounds like the PO's were affluent enough to look after this boat in the way that she deserved. Obviously one has to look at this boat and do some due diligence...but reading that nothing horrendous or worrying jumps out at me.

APART FROM..........there is a knob missing off the cooker.............$10,000 off please

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

BACK to the POSTED TOPIC

I just re-read the listing for the Hinkley

ALLEGRO is a two owner boat that was carefully thought out during her build process and fastidiously maintained ever since. A rare opportunity to own a Hinckley B-40 of this caliber.


ALLEGRO was one of the last B40’s built and as such her trim and finish level is more like the SW42 than earlier B40’s and should be at the top of the list for anyone looking for an excellent B40. She sleeps 5 in her Dinette/Nav interior that is finished in satin with gloss highlighted varnished mahogany with white overhead and a gloss varnished teak and holly sole . ALLEGRO is for sale from her second owner and has benefited from the experience and care of both owners who continuously and meticulously maintained and upgraded her.
Recent work includes:

• New Westerbeke 55hp engine installed 2014
• Galley countertop replaced 2014
• Galley sink and faucet replaced 2014
• New engine and start batteries 2014
• Dodger canvas replaced 2010
• All cabin cushion foam and covers new in 2007.
• All brass Frigast lights removed and replaced with same style brass Xenon units with lifetime warranty 2003, Still like new
• Tempurpedic mattress 2007
• New VacuFlush head and 18-gallon holding tank 2007

SAILS and RIGGING

Hinckley fabricated aluminum spars with Navtec rod rigging and tensioner.

• Harken II headstay system
• Spinnaker (MPS) halyard
• Full spinnaker gear with pole carried onmast.
• Single line reefing system led aft to cockpit.
• Block and tackle boom vang

WINCHES:

• (2) Barient #24 STS secondary cockpit winches
• (2) Barient #28 STS primary cockpit winches
• Main mast winches for halyards
• Mizzen mast winches for halyards
• Main sheet winch on cabin top

SAILS:

• Main sail – North, fully battened Main with lazy jacks and sail cover
• 150% Genoa - Roller furling (2004)
• 105% Genoa - Roller furler (2004)
• Gennaker - with snuffer
• Mizzen sail with sail cover
• Mizzen staysail

Rod rigged (nice) I would change all the winches (for sure the primaries) to Andersen self tailing winches but then that is just me being me.

OK not a recent 2014 refit but it sounds like the PO's were affluent enough to look after this boat in the way that she deserved. Obviously one has to look at this boat and do some due diligence...but reading that nothing horrendous or worrying jumps out at me.

APART FROM..........there is a knob missing off the cooker.............$10,000 off please

Everything sounds really great except the rod rigging. If it's more than 15 years old it may be near the end of it's life. Very difficult to tell if it's nearing the point of failure without taking all the fittings apart & doing a dye test.

[antoha]

Just my $0.02... We don't have a hinckley, would never afford one. Ours is the same era and even designer, overhangs and wood and all (a LeComte NE38). I am now slowly but steadily falling behind on the varnishing and all the similar maintenance. It is a terrible shame, but it feels like playing a musical instrument: less than 2 hrs a day and you're regressing.

Having said that, every time we look at our boat, we smile and don't (really) wish for anything else (yet).

Happy new year folks! A fathom under the keel, fair winds, and calm seas!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by antoha

Just my $0.02... We don't have a hinckley, would never afford one. Ours is the same era and even designer, overhangs and wood and all (a LeComte NE38). I am now slowly but steadily falling behind on the varnishing and all the similar maintenance. It is a terrible shame, but it feels like playing a musical instrument: less than 2 hrs a day and you're regressing.

Having said that, every time we look at our boat, we smile and don't (really) wish for anything else (yet).

Happy new year folks! A fathom under the keel, fair winds, and calm seas!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

That's a beautiful boat.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces

IP has done a great job of marketing, but what would be the other current builds in a similar quality range?

I'd like the IPs, but desire better performance characteristics. I like the Pacific Seacrafts, but they seem a little "too" bluewater if you know what I mean. (small cockpit, tight quarters)

I like PSC, nearly bought one but it was sold before we could get over to California to look at it. I have not found them to have any inherent problems.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

AND then spend a fortune replacing that teak deck upgrading the winches ditching that FP generator {an oxymoron if ever there was one}, and having the hull painted in a nice dark blue colour...and that is just a quick list of things needing done from glancing at a few pictures......somehow - and I love Swans I think NOT!!!!

BUT the big question is ARE YOU in a position to buy either of these boats? Financially I mean, IF NOT, then surely shirley

That Swan had the aluminum toerail replaced with teak after the previous owner botched the job, they removed the vertical portion of the toe rail and covered it up with teak. The more recent owners discovered the corrosion and had the remaining aluminum removed. I would be worried about what else was screwed up on that boat. The deck and winch work would probably be around $150K.

[The Smokester]

Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces

...I like the Pacific Seacrafts, but they seem a little "too" bluewater if you know what I mean. (small cockpit, tight quarters)

Yes. You are right. Not a party boat. Great when the going gets rough, though.

[Cheechako]

I just have never been able to see the added value asked for in a PS. I have to admit I haven't been on one for 10 years probably at this point. But their interiors were very "adequate", the trim and furniture being simpler and.... less than many. Kinda had the feel of "we'll just buy premade trim pieces and make them fit" to me. I always felt they likely made up with impeccable glasswork. Then I asked to go on and look at a "brand new, just received from the factory" 34. Some of the protective shipping vinyl was still on it, on the hard. I saw a huge couple of cracks in the aft deck behind the cockpit.... it appeared that someone had got the hardener-to-resin catalyst mix too hot. I'm not talking light stress gel cracks....but a gap of maybe 1/16" cracks. Somehow the boat shipped and got to WA state in that manner. maybe the change in temperature exposed the problem. I noted it to the broker. That was yet another confirmation, that many things we believe about products that have been hyped up well in the industry are simply not always true.
Or maybe it's like owning an Audi.... the worst most unreliable car I've ever owned! It seems to me the first thing a car should do above all else is get you to point B from Point A without breaking down!

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Everything sounds really great except the rod rigging. If it's more than 15 years old it may be near the end of it's life. Very difficult to tell if it's nearing the point of failure without taking all the fittings apart & doing a dye test.

TRUE it 'may be' and it may not be' IF worried do a DPI test ...you could do it yourself if you are in any way technical, nothing like knowing your own boat.....even a pro DPI test of all the rigging should be under $2,500 at a wild guess by a local rigger who understands Navtec Nitronic rod rigging .............

BUT IF you are or were a serious buyer you could ask for this to be done as part of the sale price OR reduce the offer after having priced a DPI test.......IF WORRIED about the Rod Rigging that is......

On the other hand buy the IP and its $15,000 or more to replace the chain plates and you cant do a quick DPI test on them......

IF I was buying the Hinkley "I might" check a few rod ends and dependent on what I found then decide on the proper course of action. For sure I would be less concerned with a rod rigged boat than a traditionally 1 x 19 wire rigged one.

Then of course 'the solution' to this 'issue' is simply when surveyed get the rig 'checked' by a rigger and don't accept any "may be's" in the rig or survey report.

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by The Smokester

Yes. You are right. Not a party boat. Great when the going gets rough, though.

Exactly. I like the 37 a lot, but not sure about the space vs other boats in the category, for my overall uses.

[lifeofreilly57]

Well, what the heck, if your going to look at hinckley's and such, why not a nice Morris? Just as well built as a Hinckley but with more cruising oriented models. Just about as expensive too.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[savoir]

A Morris would be much more functional than a Hinckley. Even so it would not be cheap. They are expensive but not overpriced so you really do get what you pays for. Here's one.
http://au.yachtworld.com/boats/1993/...s#.VockSazSljo

[lifeofreilly57]

The Morris's I've seen were built to just as exacting standards as Hinckley's, just as pretty, but more practical for every day use, they have evolved with the times and built some beautiful boats. They also hold their value too.
The Morris company has a devoted customer base and supports them well. Nothing wrong with that.
They build some nice family cruising boats too.
I do love the look and lines of some of the traditional Hinckley's but they wouldn't fit the kind of use I need a boat for. Maybe when my cruising days are done, my son's are on their own and the wife and I just need a pretty daysailor/ local cruiser. I think their new 50 is a step in the right direction, their model line needed an update. Hinckley quality with modern performance and creature comforts.

[icedog11]

Originally Posted by savoir

A Morris would be much more functional than a Hinckley. Even so it would not be cheap. They are expensive but not overpriced so you really do get what you pays for. Here's one.
1993 Morris Offshore 44 sloop Sail New and Used Boats for Sale

it is beautiful, but also a 200k bump in price, I'm looking to stay below 350 with upgrades and refits. sorry missed it was in A$