Newbies & South Pacific island tour

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Kurlie1

I stand corrected. Wish I had this advice 6 months ago when I sold my 3.25 year old Revere liferaft because no one in NZ was autorised to service it. The beauty of this forum is that these matters can be openly discussed without animosity. Thanks all for your corrections

Given all the reports of life rafts failing to inflate and other problems due to storage and sometimes age, having an out of service life raft is not the answer if you want equipment that you can rely on.

You can service it yourself if you are not concerned about certification. Packing it back up again is the most difficult part. But regular servicing is required if you want to be sure that it will work when you need it to. It’s the same for inflatable PFDs. Sea air is a nasty environment for inflatable bladders and their inflating mechanisms.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by NNK

Hi all, I'm new here and will be new to yachting.
My wife and I have a cunning plan to buy a yacht, live onboard here in NZ for a year or so then disappear to the islands for 3-5 years.
I have a number of questions (I have used Search facility) and would appreciate some input (although I also realise the 'how longs a piece of string' answer could be applicable).

Size, I am convinced that we require a yacht around 50'/15m to live aboard that long. Plus we will require some crew for the trip away from NZ.

Construction, I also have in my mind that a steel hull would be good. We wont be in any hurry plus I gather they are comfortable and safe ?

I am OK at most DIY tasks incl mechanical but struggle with electrics, will that be a problem ? Boat likely to be 20 years old, obv we will get it checked before leaving but ……

How much time per day/week do you cruisers spend maintaining/cleaning ?

What is ESSENTIAL kit (for comfort not safety) on such a boat/trip ? Genset, watermaker, divorce lawyer, etc ?

That's prob too long for most already so I shall stop but would appreciate input/thoughts.
Cheers

A 20 year old, 15m steel boat you say? How much time you got?
j/k, it's not that bad if you live aboard, the power of list making will get you through it. We and our daughter are comfortable on our 11m steel junk rig (although smaller would be difficult), so on 15m you will definitely have space for two, without stepping on each others toes.

Buy the 12volt bible, and you can teach yourself everything you need to know about the electrical system.

Try keep things simple. Buy things you can fix, or learn to fix them - use a wind vane autopilot rather than electrical system, use mechanical steering rather than hydraulic, use manual winches, avoid mast furling sails, have back-ups for essential system - chartplotter and maps on your phone, and paper charts etc.

Acquire an intermediate knowledge of meteorology, learn how to patch a sail by hand.

That is by no means a complete list, but I hope it gets you thinking along the right lines.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

A 20 year old, 15m steel boat you say? How much time you got?
j/k, it's not that bad if you live aboard, the power of list making will get you through it. We and our daughter are comfortable on our 11m steel junk rig (although smaller would be difficult), so on 15m you will definitely have space for two, without stepping on each others toes.

...

How old is your daughter? I went through puberty while cruising with my parents (only child) on a 10.5m steel Van de Stadt sloop. She was relatively small inside by modern standards and my dad and I could have really used a catamaran to keep us apart, or at least separate cabins with lockable doors. I spent a lot of time on passage holed up under the upside down dinghy in front of the mast. Off passage I was in the villages and on other boats until it was time to sail somewhere else.

Great advice regarding a project boat, but rust never slept and doesn’t sleep. Half the work of a steel boat project is the steel. Get a plastic boat and you can pretty much ignore the plastic part and spend all your time on all the other projects. YMMV

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by fxykty

How old is your daughter? I went through puberty while cruising with my parents (only child) on a 10.5m steel Van de Stadt sloop. She was relatively small inside by modern standards and my dad and I could have really used a catamaran to keep us apart, or at least separate cabins with lockable doors. I spent a lot of time on passage holed up under the upside down dinghy in front of the mast. Off passage I was in the villages and on other boats until it was time to sail somewhere else.

Great advice regarding a project boat, but rust never slept and doesn’t sleep. Half the work of a steel boat project is the steel. Get a plastic boat and you can pretty much ignore the plastic part and spend all your time on all the other projects. YMMV

I like the security of a steel boat, and the rust maintenance isn't so bad if you liveaboard and keep on top of it. And she just "feels" more solid and stable, even at anchor, plus you generally get more boat for your money if you buy steel. Our daughter is 1.5 years old, so she is definitely a sea baby
I'm jealous of you and her, it must be great to grow up on a ship.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by fxykty

What has to stop?

1) The ever-expanding requirements of CAT 1 based on the inability of some arrogant know-it-all voyagers to keep people safe on their boats. I’ll bet the Survival at Sea course is presented to experienced voyagers by folks who sell life rafts, who have never seen a real storm at sea, in a swimming pool environment using fire hoses to simulate bad weather. And the records show that this course has very little influence on keeping people alive. Just some knee-jerk reaction from people who think they “have to do something”.

2) The inequity of local boats having to satisfy someone’s bureaucratic desires while foreign visitors to NZ get a free pass on safety inspections.

3) The variety of rule sets that allow some people to comply with one set of rules while others have a different, more onerous set of rules applied. Referring to a boat owner who is an NZ citizen, lives permanently in NZ, travels on an NZ passport, has his boat moored alongside mine but because his boat was “imported” into NZ as part of his “immigrant’s baggage/furniture allowance” 14 years ago is allowed, year after year, to voyage to the islands with no CAT 1 requirement even though his registration in the foreign country expired 9 years ago and nobody in authority has bothered to check while I have the cost/inconvenience of jumping thru the ever-increasing set of hoops (see 1 above). Is it just jealousy on my part? You bet!

Do you wish me to continue? If yes, let’s do it in another thread - this is looking like a thread hijack.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

NNK that sand blasting price was Aussie dollars. As for teak decks, run away from them in a 20 year old vessel unless they have been recently replaced. Also teak decks work in a cold country like NZ, but in the tropics you will need to wear your favourite gumboots or Jandals when walking on them.
As for maintenance costs, it all depends on the type of owner you are and what you consider worn out.
Cheers

This is my solution for steel boat deck -

50/50 mix of fine quartz sand and one part paint. 3 layers. Protects the deck, is cheap, easy, and much more effective than off-the-shelf non slip, and I think it looks nice if you put in a little effort. Don't paint up to the fittings as it can hide rust.

Closer shot of the texture, achieved by dabbing the brush up and down -

If the ship already has teak decking, then you can probably do this and turn a profit selling the teak

[NNK]

Thanks Captn B, looks good. We have recently been using a Resene non slip paint on our truck decks, it works very well and is not bad to walk on barefoot (some can be pretty sharp). It also has the benefit of being able to be mixed to any of their colour range (I think but better check that).

[NNK]

We looked at our first couple of boats yesterday, good job I didnt take $$$$.

Plenty more to see over the next couple of weeks, once done I will post a shortlist.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by NNK

Thanks Captn B, looks good. We have recently been using a Resene non slip paint on our truck decks, it works very well and is not bad to walk on barefoot (some can be pretty sharp). It also has the benefit of being able to be mixed to any of their colour range (I think but better check that).

Cheers, don't be tempted to use anything over "fine" grade, or it will be sharp. 3 or more coats of fine grade works great though.
I look forward to seeing how your project progresses

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

This is my solution for steel boat deck -

50/50 mix of fine quartz sand and one part paint. 3 layers. Protects the deck, is cheap, easy, and much more effective than off-the-shelf non slip, and I think it looks nice if you put in a little effort. Don't paint up to the fittings as it can hide rust.

Closer shot of the texture, achieved by dabbing the brush up and down -

If the ship already has teak decking, then you can probably do this and turn a profit selling the teak

That looks really good. The colour is a bit too dark for the tropics though, isn’t it?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

1) The ever-expanding requirements of CAT 1 based on the inability of some arrogant know-it-all voyagers to keep people safe on their boats. I’ll bet the Survival at Sea course is presented to experienced voyagers by folks who sell life rafts, who have never seen a real storm at sea, in a swimming pool environment using fire hoses to simulate bad weather. And the records show that this course has very little influence on keeping people alive. Just some knee-jerk reaction from people who think they “have to do something”.



2) The inequity of local boats having to satisfy someone’s bureaucratic desires while foreign visitors to NZ get a free pass on safety inspections.



3) The variety of rule sets that allow some people to comply with one set of rules while others have a different, more onerous set of rules applied. Referring to a boat owner who is an NZ citizen, lives permanently in NZ, travels on an NZ passport, has his boat moored alongside mine but because his boat was “imported” into NZ as part of his “immigrant’s baggage/furniture allowance” 14 years ago is allowed, year after year, to voyage to the islands with no CAT 1 requirement even though his registration in the foreign country expired 9 years ago and nobody in authority has bothered to check while I have the cost/inconvenience of jumping thru the ever-increasing set of hoops (see 1 above). Is it just jealousy on my part? You bet!



Do you wish me to continue? If yes, let’s do it in another thread - this is looking like a thread hijack.

Oh my, a bit of frustration from you.

1) My wife and I did the Advanced Sea Survival course a couple years ago just for fun. It took place in a wave pool and with blindfolds so while it doesn’t come close to real storm conditions it is definitely a good way to figure out how to get into a liferaft and what a shitty place that would be in real life. It took a year to get the smell of chlorine out of our foul weather gear. If nothing else it encourages all participants to avoid a life raft at all costs. We don’t carry one on our catamaran.

In general, courses are just for certificates and not for real knowledge. Have survival stats gotten better with more courses? I agree that Cat 1 goes too far and costs too much for the very low value that it provides.

2) Wasn’t the law applied to foreign boats when it first came in? And foreign boats stopped coming. So they walked it back due to the marine industry complaints and possibly also the complaints from foreign cruisers.

3) Are you sure he’s travelling overseas on an unregistered vessel? If so, that’s illegal. We have to provide our registration certificate everywhere we go and the expiration date is printed in big letters on it. I suppose we could alter the date. That would be illegal too.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Oh my, a bit of frustration from you.

1) My wife and I did the Advanced Sea Survival course a couple years ago just for fun. It took place in a wave pool and with blindfolds so while it doesn’t come close to real storm conditions it is definitely a good way to figure out how to get into a liferaft and what a shitty place that would be in real life. It took a year to get the smell of chlorine out of our foul weather gear. If nothing else it encourages all participants to avoid a life raft at all costs. We don’t carry one on our catamaran.

In general, courses are just for certificates and not for real knowledge. Have survival stats gotten better with more courses? I agree that Cat 1 goes too far and costs too much for the very low value that it provides.

2) Wasn’t the law applied to foreign boats when it first came in? And foreign boats stopped coming. So they walked it back due to the marine industry complaints and possibly also the complaints from foreign cruisers.

3) Are you sure he’s travelling overseas on an unregistered vessel? If so, that’s illegal. We have to provide our registration certificate everywhere we go and the expiration date is printed in big letters on it. I suppose we could alter the date. That would be illegal too.

A US flagged yacht left without clearance.... came back from the islands some time later... skipper was taken to court.... he beat the NZ state as legally they can not impose their will on foreign flag ships or yachts in this manner.
simples...

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by fxykty

In general, courses are just for certificates and not for real knowledge. Have survival stats gotten better with more courses? I agree that Cat 1 goes too far and costs too much for the very low value that it provides.

Yes it would be interesting to see stats on how many people have successfully been rescued from liferafts as opposed to rescued by passing ships or other vessels. And how many maritime disasters have not included the use of a liferaft (like Platino where two people were dead long before others were rescued). In my view, the standards as published should be made voluntary compliance (as said, the vast majority of us comply anyway) and then provide for powerful sanction if a boat gets in trouble and can be shown to not have complied. In other words kick the renegades in the slats, not those that show a willingness to comply.

Originally Posted by fxykty

2) Wasn’t the law applied to foreign boats when it first came in? And foreign boats stopped coming. So they walked it back due to the marine industry complaints and possibly also the complaints from foreign cruisers.

AFAIK, CAT 1 was originally conceptualised by Yachting NZ to cover boats racing offshore and was not applied to cruising boats. And yes, when it did include cruisers I believe foreign boats were subsequently excluded because the marine industry was bleating about lost revenue. But that doesn’t legitimise the skewed situation we have. Now the industry has foreign revenue and they have their sweaty little hands in my chequebook as well. I guess that if foreign boats were told they would be charged for SAR supplied by our government, they may also go elsewhere. So the inequity remains and grows.

Originally Posted by fxykty

3) Are you sure he’s travelling overseas on an unregistered vessel? If so, that’s illegal. We have to provide our registration certificate everywhere we go and the expiration date is printed in big letters on it. I suppose we could alter the date. That would be illegal too.

If you interrogate the rules of the issuing authority of the registration they will tell you that registration is valid for 5 years but the registration cert is undated and as such accepted by all and sundry, even the same customs officials in NZ that repeatedly sign his boat out and never question registration and all the officials at the assorted destinations. Go figure.

But you’re right, it is very frustrating. I have investigated registering my boat offshore but too many hooks in that. I’ve had an attorney look into the legal validity of CAT 1 with no positive (for me) result. We’re stuck with it but it doesn’t make it fair. The system sucks.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by fxykty

That looks really good. The colour is a bit too dark for the tropics though, isn’t it?

Nah,I did a test patch of this one beforehand and it was fine for my gf and 1.5 y/o daughters feet, I have sailor's feet, so that's a different story :P . I think the quartz sand helps with reflectivity perhaps. I was trying to avoid pink, and didn't want grey or cream for the deck, except coach-roof which is ivory, so went as dark as I could get away with. It is only slightly warmer than the ivory.
Astronomically, we pass over the equator twice a year here in Cape Verde, so if it works here, then it is good.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

AFAIK, CAT 1 was originally conceptualised by Yachting NZ to cover boats racing offshore and was not applied to cruising boats. And yes, when it did include cruisers I believe foreign boats were subsequently excluded because the marine industry was bleating about lost revenue. But that doesn’t legitimise the skewed situation we have. Now the industry has foreign revenue and they have their sweaty little hands in my chequebook as well. I guess that if foreign boats were told they would be charged for SAR supplied by our government, they may also go elsewhere. So the inequity remains and grows.

Cruising boats were brought into this Cat 1 business after the 'Queen's Birthday Storm'...