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Old 25-05-2020, 06:59   #31
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

I would sail back, or just keep cruising
But I guess you have reasons to need it in Newfoundland and don't have the time/finances for an extended cruise?
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Old 25-05-2020, 08:56   #32
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

So you want to purchase a boat located in the other end of the world without even seeing her yourself and run an extensive survey while you are there?

This is a way more critical question before you even consider the delivery options, time, costs, crew and level of seamanship and water sailing">blue water sailing experience.


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Hello, I am zeroing in on a purchase of a 47ft monohull in NZ to bring home to the Canadian Maritimes, probably Newfoundland.

My question is whether it is wiser to ship the boat or to sail it, and how that might be worked into the purchase agreement. Given we cannot fly from Canada to NZ in the foreseeable future, there may be some logic in shipping it during this Covid time.

I wonder if anyone far wiser than I, could comment on this matter?

Many thanks,
Neil
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Old 25-05-2020, 09:29   #33
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

If the quality and condition of the boat is exemplary, and the crew outstanding, then a delivery sail, even over that distance, can be simple. The size of the checkbook required is substantial, as there is zero certainty in that statement.

Example: two nearly identical Swans did a Caribbean to Med crossing at the same time. One had zero issues, the other a couple hundred grand worth of issues.

As others have written, shipping also has significant uncertainties.

I would suggest a 10x potential cost upper for a delivery over minimum budget, and 2x potential cost upper on shipping.

On one similar trip, the owner loaded two dock carts of cash in literal money sacks. Those sacks were all empty by the final port, 2/3 as far as NZ to NL. And he was VERY careful with spending: that’s why had had enough in the first place.
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Old 25-05-2020, 10:09   #34
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

Neil,

I tried to send my sailboat from the UK to New England a few years back. It was very expensive but that was not the reason I chose to have it sailed back. The legal burden the boat owner takes on is simply outrageous. Contact all of the shipping companies and ask for a copy of the contract. They are all pretty much the same. Carefully read the whole document. I guarantee you won't want to ship the boat. Basically you are responsible for everything. If the risk to the ship increases due to a storm or anything they decide is a risk, they can off load you anywhere they like including the port you just loaded the boat on from. If they did not properly reserve a dock to do the offloading and the ship at its destination and is forced to sit offshore for even a few hours, expect to pay a demurrage fee. In my case they ranged from $19,000 to $24,000 per DAY. Some companies will demand you buy insurance from their chosen company. Again read the details, YOU are the responsible party and you will need to wrestle the insurance money from them. The stated value of the insurance policy I was quoted was about $50,000.000 which should give you an idea as to the range of risk you might be subject to. Oh and don't forget when you pay the full shipping fee upfront according to the contract that action constitutes the shipping company as having completed all of its obligations to you. These are just a few of the highlights that I can remember. There were many more shocking items in the contract. My advice to anyone going overseas to buy a boat, forget it, get something close to home.

My own experience in the Netherlands where I purchased and refit a Nordia was horrible. No quotes were even close to the final number and you will be in a legal system that is not built to protect you. If you still want to do it, first thing you need to do is hire a knowledgable lawyer in the place your buying the boat and write contracts for each stage of the process that bests protects you. In the Netherlands, no contract penalties for non-performance means you will be shoved aside for every boat owner who demanded a contract that included penalties for non-performance.

Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.
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Old 25-05-2020, 12:07   #35
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

Hi Neil, I am in sort of the reverse situation from you, I am trying to ship my boat from NL to Vancouver. I have also considered selling it, since the shipping costs are between $20-25k CAD to go across Canada, although we may be able to convince them to do cross-Canada for less if they are guaranteed to have a boat going both ways... Something to think about anyway. I would also consider selling you my boat if you were interested (38’ Ericson) but it looks like you are looking for something a bit bigger. Send me a message if any of this sounds appealing.
-Andrew
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Old 25-05-2020, 12:10   #36
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

On the plus side, I imagine shipping rates by sea are pretty cheap right now. Though I would be interested if anyone knows if that is true for sure or not.
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Old 25-05-2020, 12:21   #37
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

I'm in a similar situation. Have an accepted offer for an absolute killer boat, located in Singapore. I'm not retired so need to get it to the American continent somehow. Best compromise is Panama, because from there to Florida is doable with my vacation days.

Hire a captain/crew, fuel, food, etc. = $75,000
Shipping via deck cargo = $110,000

Suddenly the boat is no longer such a killer deal, especially when it's literally on the other side of the earth.
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Old 25-05-2020, 12:28   #38
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

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Originally Posted by makobuilders View Post
I'm in a similar situation. Have an accepted offer for an absolute killer boat, located in Singapore. I'm not retired so need to get it to the American continent somehow. Best compromise is Panama, because from there to Florida is doable with my vacation days.

Hire a captain/crew, fuel, food, etc. = $75,000
Shipping via deck cargo = $110,000

Suddenly the boat is no longer such a killer deal, especially when it's literally on the other side of the earth.
Hmm, I am free to fly out from here, but where I can fly into is another matter. I might consider delivering for people for a fraction of that cost, including a pacific crossing, I'd be happy short handing with one crew (although I can't think of someone that would be able to right now), or even single handing if people don't mind the risk. Most of the jobs I was going to do on my boat are now held back by the "situation" anyway, so for once I have more time than money.
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Old 25-05-2020, 13:13   #39
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

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Originally Posted by Captn_Black View Post
On the plus side, I imagine shipping rates by sea are pretty cheap right now. Though I would be interested if anyone knows if that is true for sure or not.
Actually I have been told by several transport companies that it is actually more costly to ship boats now because so few are moving that you have to pay for both legs yourself (rather than only one leg if someone else’s boat is going back the other way).
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Old 25-05-2020, 14:24   #40
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

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Originally Posted by Aurora38 View Post
Actually I have been told by several transport companies that it is actually more costly to ship boats now because so few are moving that you have to pay for both legs yourself (rather than only one leg if someone else’s boat is going back the other way).
I think they are telling you porkies as many of the ships, such as Minervagracht MINERVAGRACHT - IMO 9571521 - ShipSpotting.com - Ship Photos and Ship Tracker , in that trade are 'multi purpose' and will be hauling bulk or boxes the other way.

That said I imagine demand to get boats back to Europe and the US from the SWPacific and Caribbean is quite high just now... that would lift the cost.... getting a slot.

The above assumes you are speaking about sea freight not road freight, I have just realised that you may be speaking of the latter where it could hold true.
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Old 25-05-2020, 15:08   #41
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

Look at how many boats are going into St Johns, Newfoundland. (Not many)

Halifax, NS or St. John, NB are more likely candidates. Of these Halifax is better, more facilities to fit the boat out for delivery to Newfoundland.

Out of curiosity where are you going to keep the boat in Newfoundland once you get there? Are are you Looking for suggestions?
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Old 25-05-2020, 16:29   #42
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

The reverse situation but might help a bit. In 2017 a guy from NZ bought a Nordhavn 46 in Newfoundland from Pat Thompson. After looking at several options including making the long voyage, he "sailed" the boat to Baltimore where it was put on a ship for NZ. I don't know more than that about it but you might find some info by internet searching. The boat name was Maratime (yes, spelled that way). If you contact Pat he might be able to provide some information on the shipping details or the new owner who actually had to make this happen. there is a You tube video on Martime's last haul out, you might find a way to contact Pat through that. Good luck.
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Old 26-05-2020, 07:30   #43
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

Hi, we would welcome suggestions as to where to keep her in NFLD. We will be sinking most everything into the purchase and getting her home, and taxes and such, so need to keep our costs down as much as possible. Let’s go to email if you can. Mine is wildlife360@gmail.com

Neil


Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Look at how many boats are going into St Johns, Newfoundland. (Not many)

Halifax, NS or St. John, NB are more likely candidates. Of these Halifax is better, more facilities to fit the boat out for delivery to Newfoundland.

Out of curiosity where are you going to keep the boat in Newfoundland once you get there? Are are you Looking for suggestions?
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Old 26-05-2020, 09:01   #44
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

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Originally Posted by Setsail360 View Post
Hi, we would welcome suggestions as to where to keep her in NFLD. We will be sinking most everything into the purchase and getting her home, and taxes and such, so need to keep our costs down as much as possible.
Neil, I understand where you're coming from. Easiest solution would be to find someplace where you can sink a permanent mooring, or a rocky area to wrap a chain around a large outcropping (very often done when I was in the Persian Gulf with all the limestone).

47ft is a good size boat, but ownership costs don't need to be too extravagant if you don't have to pay marina fees!
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Old 05-07-2020, 20:47   #45
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Re: New Zealand to Newfoundland.. sail it or ship it?

I'd sail her home, what a grand adventure it'd be!
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