New sailor, trying to narrow down what to get for my next boat.

[VinnyVincent]

Hello everyone I am new to sailing. I started out just three years ago sailing a friends Hobie 18 beachcat with him, which got me hooked. That season I ended up getting a laser dinghy and sailing it for the rest of the season, so I could learn the basics. The following season I got a Hobie 16' beachcat and have been sailing that the past two seasons.

I thought I would be happy forever sailing beachcats, but it turns our I am finding myself taking the cat on longer and longer trips, wishing I had space for cargo so I could camp out, as well as room for extra people.

First question is how big of a transition is it to go from a beachcat to a 25'+ monohull? I would still consider myself a beginner as I have only been able to practice on weekends during the season. I am just getting to where I can take the boat out consistently without capsizing.

I am looking for something to use mainly in the bay to start out with, but possibly will venture out into coastal waters for short trips, once I get a lot more experience.
I would like to keep the budget under 10,000 for initial purchase price and I don't mind upgrading and restoring it gradually to make it more seaworthy while I am using it in the bay for a few seasons.

I do notice that a lot of the local boats for sale here in the bay have a shallow draft, therefor I am assuming the bay here is shallow, so that is what's preferred.
Some boats I have been looking at are the tartan 27, the Morgan out island 30 and 33, the Sanatana 30/30(I notice this boat is relatively fast compared to some of the others, would be nice coming from a multi-hull, but how durable is it?)...also saw a good price on a Catalina 30 and a Hunter 27(newer model), but these boats seem cheap for their size, which makes me question build quality.
I would say my primary focus is on durability and build quality, followed by sailing performance over things like size and cabin space.

Also is this a good size range for my needs? should I hold out for a few seasons and keep sailing the beachcat until I can afford something over 30'? Or would that be "too much boat" for someone with my experience?
I'd like to avoid buying 2-3 more boats within the next ten years as my experience grows, but I also don't want to get in over my head.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Vinny,

I really don't think you'll have any problem stepping up to a 30' boat... Ideally maybe 25ish is a good transition, but you make good sense not wanting to buy/sell/buy...

You don't say where you are or what your primary use would be...

[VinnyVincent]

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor

Vinny,

I really don't think you'll have any problem stepping up to a 30' boat... Ideally maybe 25ish is a good transition, but you make good sense not wanting to buy/sell/buy...

You don't say where you are or what your primary use would be...

The boat would be docked in a marina near Galveston bay. Primary use would be sailing around the bay on weekends at first with a possibility of more extended trips along the coast once I get more experience and am able to upgrade the boat. Nothing too crazy. Maybe a week long trip or so at the most.
The most people that would be on the boat would be 4-6 people and it would only really need to sleep two.

How do you like your morgan out island 33? there is a pretty good price on one in my area and it already has a slip.

Morgan Out-Island 33 sail boat

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, VinnyVincent.

[bsurvey]

catalina 27 of cal 2 27 would be good starter boats

the catalina comes both centerboard and fixed keel. centerboard allows you to store on trailer much cheaper than in water berth fees.

when you become adventuresome. you can drop the boat in the water. take the car and trailer to the destination then sail down.


check out the association news letter, the Catalina 27 association is very strong

[Ocean Girl]

Check out the older island packets 27+ they are strong and roomy. Bayfields are ones to check out too.
Have fun boat shopping!

[thomm225]

The biggest adjustment for me going from catamarans to monohulls was that the monohulls are so slow, and they have a different motion which may cause you to blow chunks at times.

Then there's the anchoring etc. Plus worrys like running aground which isn't a problem on a Hobie 18.

Plus a ton of other small things if you have only 3 years boating experience.

Docking is one.

You may want a tough old boat capable of holding its own when going one on one against a dock. I personnally crashed into a piling and ripped off maybe an 8th of it with my bow sprit. No damage to the old Bristol that time.

Then there's coming in too fast etc. Try and find a slip that isn't near an expensive boat. Crew help is nice also. I sail singlehanded.

Here is a list of some oldies but goodies:

http://atomvoyages.com/planning/good...oats-list.html

[CaseyB]

I am slipped in Kemah Boardwalk Marina. I have a Newport 27 and go out every weekend. If you would like to see what it's like feel free to PM me and Ill tell you how to get a hold of me. I'll take you out and let you sail her.

[VinnyVincent]

Originally Posted by CaseyB

I am slipped in Kemah Boardwalk Marina. I have a Newport 27 and go out every weekend. If you would like to see what it's like feel free to PM me and Ill tell you how to get a hold of me. I'll take you out and let you sail her.

PM sent, that is very generous of you and would be an awesome experience to help me get an idea of what I'm looking for. Mainly to help answer the question of whether or not I should be looking at 30+ ft boats, or stick with the 27'.
Most of the boats I am looking at are in the seabrook/kemah area, so we would likely be docked fairly close to each other.

I am also curious as to how these boats handle compared to a beach cat. One of the things I miss about my laser is how much closer it can sail to the wind and how much easier it was to tack than a beach cat. I am hoping a large monohull will have similar qualities...sailing to weather is doable, but enough of a pain to make you not want to bother in my beachcat.

[thomm225]

Just for the record, a Hobie 18 is an ancient beachcat.

The newer racing beach catamarans can pretty easily outpoint a monohull in my experience (especially a nonracing type monohull) with their high aspect ratio, deep daggerboards, high aspect ratio maiinsails, and rudders etc.

Then after the pointing done, they have an asymetrical spinnaker cut rather flat that's easily launched and flown by even a singlehander.

[VinnyVincent]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Just for the record, a Hobie 18 is an ancient beachcat.

The newer racing beach catamarans can pretty easily outpoint a monohull in my experience (especially a nonracing type monohull) with their high aspect ratio, deep daggerboards, high aspect ratio maiinsails, and rudders etc.

Then after the pointing done, they have an asymetrical spinnaker cut rather flat that's easily launched and flown by even a singlehander.

Heck the H18 may even point better. The H18 is my friends boat and I have spent little time at the helm. The boat I own is an H16, which has no dagger boards and it can be a real pain to tack. It's not uncommon to for me to stall several times before successfully tacking and in heavy winds I have even capsized backwards in heavy winds and seas during a stall when I was still learning to sail it.
I had no such problems with his hobie 18.

Needless to say I tend to gybe whenever possible, as it does gybe like a dream, especially compared to the laser, which wanted to flip over during a gybe if you weren't real careful to clear the main sheet from getting hung up in the transom whilst the boom was moving across.
I'm getting better at tacking it, but there is a certain technique and it does take a little...finesse, especially with more than 2 people on board, but once you get the hang of it, it's not so bad. Trying to sail any closer than 45 degrees to the wind is pretty pointless in mine, considering how slow it starts to move.

[jkindredpdx]

I think you are looking at the right boats 25-30 ft for the $ you want to invest and the experience, overnight camping, day sailing... you might see if someone in the area is offering partial ownership of a boat or if there is a sailing club where you can try out several boats.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by VinnyVincent

Heck the H18 may even point better. The H18 is my friends boat and I have spent little time at the helm. The boat I own is an H16, which has no dagger boards and it can be a real pain to tack. It's not uncommon to for me to stall several times before successfully tacking and in heavy winds I have even capsized backwards in heavy winds and seas during a stall when I was still learning to sail it.
I had no such problems with his hobie 18.

Needless to say I tend to gybe whenever possible, as it does gybe like a dream, especially compared to the laser, which wanted to flip over during a gybe if you weren't real careful to clear the main sheet from getting hung up in the transom whilst the boom was moving across.
I'm getting better at tacking it, but there is a certain technique and it does take a little...finesse, especially with more than 2 people on board, but once you get the hang of it, it's not so bad. Trying to sail any closer than 45 degrees to the wind is pretty pointless in mine, considering how slow it starts to move.

Well you did say you were new. I was just pointing out that the Hobie 18 (and the Hobie 16) are ancient catamarans. The booms are super long, the boards (on the 18) short and fat/wide and the list goes on.

I never got to sail a laser so I never got to experience the ease of tacking one.

My only sailing experience besides 3 years on my Bristol 27 was the 15 years I had racing Beach Cats mainly along the Florida, Mississippi, and Alabama Gulf Coast.

The newer catamaran will approach 30% off the wind though depending on windspeed, sea state and the experience of the guy setting up and sailing the boat.

You will probably enjoy the monohulls though since you come from a laser background and will probably come up to speed quite fast.

[JPA Cate]

Vinny,

Jim used to have a Yankee 30. We mostly sailed it on SF Bay, but did offshore weekend sails to Half Moon Bay, Santa Cruz, and Drakes Bay, as well as vacations to the Channel Is. off Southern Calif and back. Finally, we took her to Hawaii and back to SF. So, here is a boat that my experience tells me can be sailed whenever you have time. If there is one in your vicinity, you might go look at it and see if it strikes your fancy. PM me if you decide to buy one, 'cause there is something that should have been fixed. Jim had done the fix before I met him. Flaw notwithstanding, i believe it to be a better boat then the OI.

Ann

[VinnyVincent]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Well you did say you were new. I was just pointing out that the Hobie 18 (and the Hobie 16) are ancient catamarans. The booms are super long, the boards (on the 18) short and fat/wide and the list goes on.

I never got to sail a laser so I never got to experience the ease of tacking one.

My only sailing experience besides 3 years on my Bristol 27 was the 15 years I had racing Beach Cats mainly along the Florida, Mississippi, and Alabama Gulf Coast.

The newer catamaran will approach 30% off the wind though depending on windspeed, sea state and the experience of the guy setting up and sailing the boat.

You will probably enjoy the monohulls though since you come from a laser background and will probably come up to speed quite fast.

Oh trust me I am no expert, I've just been lucky enough to be around a fleet of good beachcat sailors who have shown me a lot when it comes beachcats, but I'm clueless when it comes to other boats.
How would you say the sailing characteristics differed from the cats?

Your super cat didn't happen to have a yellow tramp and yellow sails, did it?