New Sailor, First Boat, Help me find a good one?

[SixSails]

Hi,

I'm a complete newbie, looking to try the singlehanded, liveaboard, cruising lifestyle for many reasons. Recurring costs are of course one of them, inspired by the book "Voyaging on a small income", but certainly not the only reason. I'm based in Texas USA, and will be going down to the Galveston area for a day or two to look at boats very soon, as well as taking my first ASA course on one of the nearby large lakes in my area in a couple weeks. I know I have an uphill experience battle here, so I'm expecting a lot of time in a slip as I slowly learn enough to take the boat out by myself. On the other hand, I'd like to minimize time spent in a boat yard or I will never leave.

I've been looking at boats, mainly on yachtworld, and I have a few contenders that I think might work. my general parameters seem to be:

Budget: $10-35k
Size: 25-35ft seems like the compromise between singlehanding, and liveaboarding.
Location: Ideally TX, where I can go see the boat in-person easily. East-coast at the very least is where I want to be longer-term. I have been shying away from more distant locations, as I don't really want to deal with the headache and cost of traveling, and towing a boat, and I won't be experienced enough to sail it initially.


My top options at the moment, in roughly my current preference order:



1. There's an interesting Catalina 30 nearby. It looks like the owner pulled out the engine and did an electric conversion this year using a thunderstruck 10kw kit. This sounds like a really intriguing option to me, I'd love an electric motor and a large lifepo4 battery bank! But other than that, the boat seems rather average, and looks like most of the interior has been removed, with most of it "in storage". Seems like a decent likelihood of inheriting someone else's project boat. It's on the low end of my price scale, so I can afford to upgrade and repair more things. It's nearby in TX, so I can move in as soon as I buy it (and repair anything :P).


2. There's a 35' Hinterhoeller Niagara that looks well maintained in florida. It looks like a better boat, even though it's on the bigger end in my mind. It has a slightly shorter draft, what looks like a more solid keel, and is better furnished. Already has a small solar+wind setup, and looks more "liveaboard ready". Obviously no electric motor :P However it's more expensive, and that means less $$ for upgrades and repairs. And being far away, I don't know how to work out the logistics.

3. A Tanzer 27, also in TX. It's also on the lowest end of the budget, so $$ for upgrades and repairs, but I'm wary that it will be a bit too cramped for me. It's amazing what 3 feet does even in photos. Maybe it's just the spartan interior. I'll know more when I set foot inside I'm sure. But it does stand out in price, location, and size!



All 3 boats are mid-1980's. Any thoughts on these, or other, boats are appreciated. I reserve the right to ignore any and all good advice :P

[JPA Cate]

Go look at the Tanzer. It's local. It may not be too small for a starter boat. One of our members, Mike OReilly, suggests that the smallest you are comfortable with is the soundest purchase. You could pulse him for his reasons.

And here's a link for you to consider before you go look, to help you learn what most to look for: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...1-a-78671.html

There are probably other Catalina 30's for sale in TX. Electric locks you into very specialized use patterns; imho, you'd be better off with an inboard diesel engine, for their reliability and the flexibility they lend you. They are a big 30 footer; they're a good starter boat because a known quantity, with easy re-sale if you decide you don't like it.

Yacht brokers have access to what current sale prices for boats have been.

Ann

[SixSails]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Go look at the Tanzer. It's local

I will!

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Electric locks you into very specialized use patterns; imho, you'd be better off with an inboard diesel engine, for their reliability and the flexibility they lend you.

I think I'm okay with those restrictions. I'm aware of some of the compromise an electric motor brings. It's more for me about the rest of the boat that has me wondering... Good to hear that they are a great starter boat in general!

[Reeve21]

It seems like many folks don’t keep their first boat very long. So I would stay away from that electric motor because I think it would be harder to get rid of than a more conventional engine. On the other hand, I can highly recommend Catalina to you because they are good basic boats with great parts availability, which is not something you’re going to find with a lot of other older boats with the factory long gone.

[boatpoker]

A few tips on what to look for when you inspect these boats.
Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

[clamshack]

Go to Kemah and get those ASA classes behind you. That will give you a foundation to begin with. Then take it from there.

[OldManMirage]

I like looking on Craigslist too. The Catalina 30's are - in my opinion - one of the very best "1st boats" someone can buy. Here is one I found on Craigslist..

https://houston.craigslist.org/boa/d...773755435.html

It looks near Galveston, and looks in nice condition.

Give us links to specific boats and people will chime in with opinions, you can count on that.

Good luck, keep us posted. Feel free to reach out via private message if you want advice on anything specific.

[thomm225]

I've seen lots of newbies here with the same idea. To liveaboard a boat, learn to sail, and save on renting a house or apartment.

Many don't last very long maybe between 3 months to a year or so.

It's best to buy an inexpensive boat and give it a try to see if you even like sailing and living aboard.

I bought my Bristol 27 in 2011. I still have it but don't liveaboard and never would for more than a few weeks while cruising.

It was my 12th boat though and 5th sailboat, but my first monohull. I didn't know if I'd enjoy slow boat sailing so bought the Bristol at a giveaway price. ($2,000)

A Bristol 27 is not a Tanzer 27 so don't think all 27' sailboats are similar.

Catalina 30's are good boats to start with but to learn on, the smaller the boat the better because when you make an adjustment the smaller boat reacts faster. This gives you feedback on the adjustment you made.

I learned on Beach Cats and when you make the wrong adjustment on that type boat you many times end up in the water.

You then remember what works and what doesn't.

Also keep in mind that a mid 80's boat is 40 years old. Think of a 40 year old car engine.

On a smaller boat, you can always put an outboard on it if the diesel fails for very little cost.

[deltaten]

When visiting boats, take a seat.
If the seats/settees are not comfortable....pass!
While sailing is generally considered an "outdoor sport", you will spend considerable time aboard sitting. Being uncomfortable while seated is taxing. You will expend more energy trying to become comfortable than rest needed. Sitting all scrunched fwd on the edge of the seat, trying to get your feet on the sole for a few minutes for a quick chart check or a fast snack .might be OK but any longer, you'll get sore just sitting there.

Having flat, deep and tall seating does have some advantages tho. Guests tend to not overstay their visits.

IJS

[mvweebles]

Some random thoughts:

First, at that price point, find a boat nearby. If you will be in Texas, buying a boat in Florida doesn't make sense, even if it's on the Gulf Coast.

Second, if you have a choice between a larger boat that's a '5' out of 10 and a smaller boat that's a 7/10, go with the smaller boat. The URL above with the Craigslist Catalina 30 looks interesting - sounds like the owner has done some recent upgrades (watermaker??? Starlink???). That said, storage on small boats is difficult. Even just clothes - there are cabinets but they are usually not well organized or space-optimized.

Third, the expensive stuff are sails, rigging, engine, fabric items (including dodger/upholstery). That said, 30-footer can have DIY rigging fairly easily. Upholstery/fabric are surprsingly expensive. Commercially made dodger on a 30-footer will easily exceed $5k.

Fourth, people abandon the liveaboard dream not because they can't figure out sailing, they do so because it's a LOT more work and money than they expected. Despite what many on CF say, as long as it's done in decent steps of protected water, learning to sail is far easier than learning to do the constant maintenance a boat requires. And the materials are expensive.

Fifth, since you're a novice sailor, make sure the boat has a strong engine in good condition. It will allow you to use the boat while you learn. While I'm generally keen on electric, buying an electric-powered boat is not suggested. There have been more than a few boat fires due to DIY electric conversions, and it's a level of complexity you don't need right now. Future enhancement on your next boat.

Finally, there's a rule in business Warren Buffet likes to quote: It's easier to get into a deal than to get out of it (as anyone who's been divorced can attest). When the time comes to sell, it can take a looooong time of paying slip, insurance, diver, etc.

Good luck - For me, livingboard (on/off in SF Bay in the 1990s-2010's) was s a lot of fun and worth the effort.

[Don C L]

I think it is too early for you to be shopping for boats. The choices you have are all over the map, literally and figuratively. You need more experience to know what would be a good boat for you. For example there is a huge difference, to my mind, between a 27' boat and a 35'. And that Niagara 35 has a very good rep by the way. Heck, I have a 29' boat and my neighbor has a Tartan 30 and that seems like a big difference! But the cart is before the horse here IMO. I say start with lessons, yes, but also get a good little FUN boat to learn and practice on. A Laser is a good choice. I learned on a Laser when I was a kid and just saw some old farts like me out in a little Laser club the other day. It really made me itch to jump back in one! In fact, I think I will. From the lust for sail you develop in a little boat you'll find your way to a bigger and more suitable boat to satisfy your fancies.
But if you insist on going bigger I think a Catalina 27, or the Tanzer, is a good starter "big" boat. Easy to sail, and sell. But those wouldn't be my choice for singlehanded cruising.

[CSY Man]

Budget: $10-35k
Size: 25-35ft seems like the compromise between singlehanding, and liveaboarding.

Look for a CSY 33, great boats for living on and single handling.
Slow in light winds because they are heavy. Stable and forgiving.
Sturdy and good quality, but they are old and can use some TLC.
Find a well maintained one and you are set.

I owned a CSY 33 for 14 years, did numerous Bahamas and Florida
Keys cruises in all kinds of weather. Previous owners sailed it
across the pond, cruised the Med for 5 years, then sailed back to Florida.
Highly recommended boats.

[FormerExpert]

Originally Posted by SixSails

Hi,

I'm a complete newbie, looking to try the singlehanded, liveaboard, cruising lifestyle for many reasons. Recurring costs are of course one of them, inspired by the book "Voyaging on a small income", but certainly not the only reason. I'm based in Texas USA, and will be going down to the Galveston area for a day or two to look at boats very soon, as well as taking my first ASA course on one of the nearby large lakes in my area in a couple weeks. I know I have an uphill experience battle here, so I'm expecting a lot of time in a slip as I slowly learn enough to take the boat out by myself. On the other hand, I'd like to minimize time spent in a boat yard or I will never leave.

I've been looking at boats, mainly on yachtworld, and I have a few contenders that I think might work. my general parameters seem to be:

Budget: $10-35k
Size: 25-35ft seems like the compromise between singlehanding, and liveaboarding.
Location: Ideally TX, where I can go see the boat in-person easily. East-coast at the very least is where I want to be longer-term. I have been shying away from more distant locations, as I don't really want to deal with the headache and cost of traveling, and towing a boat, and I won't be experienced enough to sail it initially.


My top options at the moment, in roughly my current preference order:



1. There's an interesting Catalina 30 nearby. It looks like the owner pulled out the engine and did an electric conversion this year using a thunderstruck 10kw kit. This sounds like a really intriguing option to me, I'd love an electric motor and a large lifepo4 battery bank! But other than that, the boat seems rather average, and looks like most of the interior has been removed, with most of it "in storage". Seems like a decent likelihood of inheriting someone else's project boat. It's on the low end of my price scale, so I can afford to upgrade and repair more things. It's nearby in TX, so I can move in as soon as I buy it (and repair anything :P).


2. There's a 35' Hinterhoeller Niagara that looks well maintained in florida. It looks like a better boat, even though it's on the bigger end in my mind. It has a slightly shorter draft, what looks like a more solid keel, and is better furnished. Already has a small solar+wind setup, and looks more "liveaboard ready". Obviously no electric motor :P However it's more expensive, and that means less $$ for upgrades and repairs. And being far away, I don't know how to work out the logistics.

3. A Tanzer 27, also in TX. It's also on the lowest end of the budget, so $$ for upgrades and repairs, but I'm wary that it will be a bit too cramped for me. It's amazing what 3 feet does even in photos. Maybe it's just the spartan interior. I'll know more when I set foot inside I'm sure. But it does stand out in price, location, and size!



All 3 boats are mid-1980's. Any thoughts on these, or other, boats are appreciated. I reserve the right to ignore any and all good advice :P

Take that class and learn as much as you can... Then take a look at Sam Holmes sailing on Youtube. He's gone across the Atlantic in his Cape Dory 28, which has a full length keel.


If you hunt hard enough you might find a 30-33 foot Cape Dory that would fit your requirements. It won't be a fast boat but they can withstand a great deal of abuse even if you get caught out in big weather.



If you find a boat (that you've had surveyed & fits the bill) but it's too far away, you might engage an instructor to give you an "Instructional delivery" back to where you want to keep your new boat. So even though you've got a good deal on finding a boat you've have to have some cash to move it back to your "Home port" but that would be good money spent..



Now you've got some experience just build on that with local trips from your home port. Before long you'll be in good shape.



Good luck


FE

[SixSails]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I think it is too early for you to be shopping for boats. The choices you have are all over the map, literally and figuratively. You need more experience to know what would be a good boat for you.

My choices are all over the map on purpose. So that I can see and start to feel out what would be a good boat. The options deliberately span a wide range.

Originally Posted by Don C L

But those wouldn't be my choice for singlehanded cruising.

Can you elaborate on what your choice would be? it seem you're suggesting an even smaller boat? I feel like below the 27' range, the accommodations for actually *living* go down considerably. However, I'm open to thoughts on that!

[SixSails]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Some random thoughts:

First, at that price point, find a boat nearby. If you will be in Texas, buying a boat in Florida doesn't make sense, even if it's on the Gulf Coast.

Thanks for this. I think I'll narrow my search then.

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Fourth, people abandon the liveaboard dream not because they can't figure out sailing, they do so because it's a LOT more work and money than they expected. Despite what many on CF say, as long as it's done in decent steps of protected water, learning to sail is far easier than learning to do the constant maintenance a boat requires. And the materials are expensive.

I think I really feel this. I don't mind taking it slow learning, but at some point, the act of sailing likely won't be a large obstacle! So a 35' vs 25' is likely a difference in maintenance and repair work, more than whether they *can* be sailed singlehanded.