New Guy, Advice Appreciated

[DangerCell]

Howdy all...

Ok, this is probly the umpteenth thread of this nature but I guess I gotta look for everyone's 2 cents myself.

Going to get a sailboat for living aboard and extended cruising. If my better half takes to it like I think she will, we would like something that can cross an ocean :-)

Looking hard now but there is a lot out there...maybe you experienced folks can help me narrow the field or suggest something I had not thought of.


My budget is around the $50k (usd) mark. Less is much better if i can find something that will give us what we need in safety and comfort...and more is ok if we find something stellar (read: turn key and too good to pass up). But we are not wealthy so I am taking operating costs into my decision as well.

Size:
45' at most
35' at least
We like the larger end for comfort (her) but want to keep the draft, bridge clearance down, and maintain ease of handling (me).
Then there is cost (seems better boat for the money if it is smaller).

Also I am befuddled as to operating costs.
Is there a point along this continuum (35-45) where dock fees end inevitable haul outs hit a point of diminishing returns?
Or are these type costs negligibly different between say a 36' and a 43'?
Is there a point where these costs become exceedingly large (@ 45' for example)?

Builder and design:
There are a few that I have become somewhat enamored by and some that make me wonder if they are appropriate.
1. Westerly
I have taken a real liking to these but seem to be way on the high side of my budget.
Corsair 36'
Sealord 39'

Not crazy about the rudder....looks a little precarious. And are they a stout safe passage maker?

2. Pearson and Irwin
Seem more coastal cruisers. But they seem to offer a lot of boat for the $. Thoughts?

3. Some Bruce Roberts designed boats- like the 43's- again seems one could get a lot of boat for the $.
Some are built by lesser known smaller builders (to me) and some by individuals...some are "blacklisted" on Mr. Roerts' web site!

4.Found a couple one off self titled "cruisers" of interest but they tend to be bigger and my costs after the purchase are a concern as is their seaworthiness.
One noteable example:
1975 Ferro custom Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Once upon a time I was a breath away from buying a home built 38' cruiser. Was built like a tank, was well equipped with all the right stuff (IMHO) and could have been had for a song (round 12K if i remember right). So I have a weakness for this type of thing...seems that if one is careful and lucky a superb boat could be had for cheap in this "catagory".
Thoughts?

5. Love 2 cabin layouts (main cabin aft), the space will keep her happy and allow us to take guests comfortably wherever we end up going.
Any other make/model suggestions or advice?

Thanks in advance for your time and experience!
Simon

[Connemara]

Welcome aboard.

You will undoubtedly get a lot of advice (and you're right, there is thread after thread on the same subject.)

I have very little advice, except to say that whatever boat you buy should reflect your own size. If you're 6 foot 2, you're not going to be happy with 5'10" headroom.

And if the Admiral is 5'4" and all the boat's handholds are up on the cabin roof out of her grasp, she's not going to be happy in a seaway or even a mild chop.

We just looked at the new Beneteaus. Lovely. Lots of room. But even I -- at six feet -- would have been hard pressed to make my way below and to the forecabin while still keeping a hand for the ship all the way. And the spacious cockpit -- so pleasant at the dock -- would have been scary in a squall. Nothing to hang on to, nothing to brace against.

Just thought I'd be the first to jump in on this thread, while procrastinating about work.

Oh, well, back to the coal face.

Once again, welcome aboard.

Connemara

[Vic de Beer]

Hi Simon. Wellcome aboard. My advice.... take $5,000.00 of the money you have and take a trip to Annapolis Md.(seeing as you are on the eastcoast). Find a good yachtbroker and spend some time looking around, try out different designs and sizes, then decide.... personally... a 38ft boat for 2 people seems idea (I sailed accross the atlantic in a 31ft boat with a wife and a 15 month old son and space was limited)
Word of advice: the costs associated with boats do not increase in proportion to the boat size.

[gunslinger9729]

Hi and welcom. Yup you will get lots of input here. I will give you my two cents worth. The Persons are good boats but I just bought a Columbia that I think after looking at lots of boats at verious stages of need vs the cost I wanted a boat that would be able to go where ever I decide to roam in comfert as well as safety. I have found a bunch of the Columbias in the range you are looking for on Yachtworld both in size as well as cost. These are strong built boats and lots of the people have already fixed most of the small things that any older boat comes with. The advice the guy before me gave you was right on. The things you usually dont think about. My only other piece of advice is start sailing as soon as you can even if you dont go for long trips at the beginning. Just being out there is fun as well as a learning time. You need to learn before going over the sea. Starting out in a smaller boat and working up isnt that bad eather because costs are lots smaller too. That part of your question is true. The reason I bought my boat at 32 ft. was because it was priced right but because the cost seems to really jump when you go over 35 ft. It is hard enough to find livabord slips at all but there are no where near as many slips for boats over 35 ft. as there are in the under 30 ft. It seems like most marinas have lots of slips for under 30 ft. but almost none for over 35. They might have 1 or 2 but most dont unless you are talking about the few/ very expensive for "mega" yachts marinas. Also alot of the marinas that will allow livabords charge extra because you will be using the facilitys more ofthe that people who just come parttime. So you need to check with the ones near where you want to go and find out how much the "extras" are because it varies widly. Hope this helps G.

[Curmudgeon]

My guess is that you don't have enough money to do what you want to do in safety and comfort unless you are handy and willing to invest at least two years of sweat equity in the boat.

[DangerCell]

Thanks guys! looking forward to more but Before anyone else mentions it, I plan on spending 6 months to a year shaking a boat and myself down before any major passages. I am adventurous not suicidal :-)

[Minggat]

I started (ten years ago) with a book called The Livaboard Report. I just did a Google search on it and it's still available. It's a book of statistics with a little commentary. Fun reading and tremendously helpful. It will tell you what people tried and liked and why. The learning curve is steep,.. and expensive. You can spend a lot of money before you figure out what you don't need.

[Bash]

You might find an early-70s Columbia 45 in that price range, but it's not going to be in good shape. Especially if you're wanting the better half to move onto it with you.

Try this little experiment to educate yourself about the cost of owning a 45 footer. Call your local sail loft and tell them you want a dacron jib and main, suitable for cruising, built for a Columbia 45.

[DangerCell]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

My guess is that you don't have enough money to do what you want to do in safety and comfort unless you are handy and willing to invest at least two years of sweat equity in the boat.

k...how much is enough?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by DangerCell

k...how much is enough?

Its easier to fit a Large Wardrobe into a 36ftr than it is to fit a Small Wallet into a 45ftr......

Try asking about this one...
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1630735

[Doodles]

Here are a few that I think could be had in your price range:

1984 C&C Landfall 38 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1983 Morgan 384 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1982 Cape Dory Cutter Rig Full Keel Sail Boat For Sale -

The Cape Dory may seem out of range price-wise, but I'm quite certain there was a signed contract on it this past summer for $60K. The deal fell through for some reason, not sure why. I looked at the boat and thought hard about making an offer. It is very well equipped and turnkey for sure.

I'd figure 10-20% off the asking prices.

Have fun looking, there are lots out there in your price range if you look long enough.

The advice about a trip to Annapolis is spot on. More good cruising boats in that area than anywhere else. If you need a good broker, PM me I can recommend a good one.

[DangerCell]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its easier to fit a Large Wardrobe into a 36ftr than it is to fit a Small Wallet into a 45ftr......

Try asking about this one...
Coastal Yacht Sales (Norfolk, VA)

Good point

Ok, how about this one?

Looks like a pretty cool boat! A few things missing from my wish list, like a diesel engine, and the ability to fit onto the head is good too, but I actually like it. Besides, could throw quite a bit of $ at a wish list for that price.
Seems other Grampians that size when done up right, have asking prices near 50k....interesting.

Seems they really like em in the UK...all dolled up there

Can anyone speak to the seaworthiness of a G34 Grampian?



Where in Portugal are you boatman?
My better half is from Oporto and I have spent much time exploring between there and Lisboa...last few Christmas' in Porto. Beautiful country. Am missing it now....in Paris at the moment and it is bloody cold here. Oh, and the coffee sucks here too!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by DangerCell

Good point

Ok, how about this one?

Looks like a pretty cool boat! A few things missing from my wish list, like a diesel engine, and the ability to fit onto the head is good too, but I actually like it. Besides, could throw quite a bit of $ at a wish list for that price.
Seems other Grampians that size when done up right, have asking prices near 50k....interesting.

Seems they really like em in the UK...all dolled up there

Can anyone speak to the seaworthiness of a G34 Grampian?



Where in Portugal are you boatman?
My better half is from Oporto and I have spent much time exploring between there and Lisboa...last few Christmas' in Porto. Beautiful country. Am missing it now....in Paris at the moment and it is bloody cold here. Oh, and the coffee sucks here too!

Hey Danger... Am wintering in Coimbra and the boats at Figueira da Foz marina till the weather turns...
You've not missed anything this winter.. been damn cold and rained loads.. to rough to sail to wet to work ...lol.. but it is lovely country and with great people.

Muito Prazeer.... Abraxos para ti... Beijs para anomorada....

Ate Logo...

[DangerCell]

Doodles,
Thanks! Good suggestions...and very nice heads up on the Cape Dory, good info m8! Great boat in great shape it seems....gonna look closer at that one.

[mesquaukee]

Cruising where?
Isolated areas with limited local supplies or services for extended periods.
Like your toys and comfort.
etc.

The list goes on and on. The point is if you plan to be far away from easy access to supplies and enjoy your comforts and like a lot of toys you will need a larger boat. Gensets use fuel which adds up real quick over 3 or 4 months. Solar works well if you are carefull.
Then there is all the beer, wine and rum.
Spare parts, extra lines, etc.
Then there is all the food. If you like your meat freezers take up a fair bit of space.
Then there is all the gas for the outboard.
If you are in the tropics there is all the coral. You just might get hooked on diving, tanks, BC's weights, compressor and more gas.
The longer you are out the more stuff you accumulate.
More stuff means more diversions and comfort.
Don't forget that the Admiral needs to be pleased

Trailers and roof racks do not work very well.