Need opinions on this boat

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by zeehag

ok you have shown your hand. you lost.
formosas do not use solid wood spars.
they use EASILY REPAIRED hollow box construction with reinforcement blocks in masts and stringers in booms.
my boom is not as heavy as it appears. you may wish to research construction and boatbuilding before criticizing someone you donot know.
you may as well also lay off criticisms of formosas and cts as you have proven to know NOTHING about them , not in the manner of construction nor of the materials used to construct them.
there is nothing production about them, and there is nothing cheap about the materials used in the construction. except the ballast, which is encapsulated concrete inclusive of yard findings, aka metal stuff. the encapsulation is complete.

Touchy, touchy.

I understand your rant. And the reasons you must have for wanting so much to believe in the illusion you've created surrounding CT's, because you own one. But it would be a disservice to the OP to let him believe that the early CT's were anything more than project boats, as delivered, despite their often lovely interiors. This was common knowledge among those of us who worked on them, and throughout the yachting community, since at least the mid-70's. In fact it was these early Taiwan imports that were responsible for the coining of the affectionate term "Taiwan Turkey" which plagued the genre for decades.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Touchy, touchy.

I understand your rant. And the reasons you must have for wanting so much to believe in the illusion you've created surrounding CT's, because you own one. But it would be a disservice to the OP to let him believe that the early CT's were anything more than project boats, as delivered, despite their often lovely interiors. This was common knowledge among those of us who worked on them, and throughout the yachting community, since at least the mid-70's. In fact it was these early Taiwan imports that were responsible for the coining of the affectionate term "Taiwan Turkey" which plagued the genre for decades.

rodlmffao. and what model desk do you jock??
as your info on the construction of formosa/ct is faulty and as you are a PRESUMER not a researcher nor factually oriented individual i see your bashing as bullying. my posting was, contrary to your trolling remark, not a rant.
you cannot discern between rant and statements of information nor do you have any inkling of construction of non production boats or items other than that desk you drive.
yet you continue to bash and belittle.
funny how you are the only source of the comment on these boats being turkeys
leaky teakies yes but turkey? that is much more descriptive of closed mineded nonsailing trolls.

it is ALWAYS someone who neither owned nor sailedvone to bash the marque.

[Scout 30]

I'm always glad when someone makes the mistake of challenging the hair trigger of zeehag whose responses are quite passionate & almost poetic. Although sometimes a little hard to follow it does make for great entertainment.

[Bill Seal]

Just make sure you can easily remove that green piece of crap MD11C and put in something you can get parts for.
If somebody has an MSB trans laying around, please let me know. Mine somehow got water in it and Volvo has turned them into orphans.
Stupid Swedish marketing decision.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Just make sure you can easily remove that green piece of crap MD11C and put in something you can get parts for.
If somebody has an MSB trans laying around, please let me know. Mine somehow got water in it and Volvo has turned them into orphans.
Stupid Swedish marketing decision.

Keep an eye on Ebay.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

I'm always glad when someone makes the mistake of challenging the hair trigger of zeehag whose responses are quite passionate & almost poetic. Although sometimes a little hard to follow it does make for great entertainment.

actually isnt hair trigger but 8ntoleranc3 of stoopit. when ones commentsare so inaccurate as have been thatbpersons, they need to be called. sadly the troll did not have anyclue as to construction and abilities of the marque.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by zeehag

ok you have shown your hand. you lost.
formosas do not use solid wood spars.
they use EASILY REPAIRED hollow box construction with reinforcement blocks in masts and stringers in booms.
my boom is not as heavy as it appears. you may wish to research construction and boatbuilding before criticizing someone you donot know.
you may as well also lay off criticisms of formosas and cts as you have proven to know NOTHING about them , not in the manner of construction nor of the materials used to construct them.
there is nothing production about them, and there is nothing cheap about the materials used in the construction. except the ballast, which is encapsulated concrete inclusive of yard findings, aka metal stuff. the encapsulation is complete.

IMO, your 3rd way is a variation on the 2nd.

[akprb]

Zeehag be careful! If you encourage all to run to Matzalan to get work done the iron hand of economics will take hold! You are winning there for a reason :-)

[reed1v]

The design is extremely seaworthy, unlike many modern plastic tubs like hunters, etc. the CT's were based on Bill Garden's designs for long range cruising. Designed to hold lots of stores, be sea-kindly in motion, and carry its beams quite a distance to make a stiff boat. For the long range sailor, really one of the best boats to have. And yes, almost all production boats with wooden masts have boxed masts. A solid mast is not something you want and should avoid.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by JTHAW

to the op;...with your budget I would recommend a bit more modern design, while this boat is pretty,...too much wood, too much maintainence, too slow, just my 2 cents

you have never sailed one at 8.4 kts in a chubasco(60+kts winds in darkness) when all other boats are heading back into a safe zone...rodlmffao...
as i said earlier, the ones who bash these are folks who have never sailed nor owned one., that says a lot in and of itself.
if you wish to own a boat to cruise--this is a good one. how many folks say "we were doing great until we were hit by a chubasco and had to go in to hide" or "it was easy until the wind got ovewr 30 kts then we had to head back" rodlmffao.
these you do not turn back or go hide in 20+ kts winds. you SAIL em. with a smile on face. reef at 25 kts, first reef.....
those who enjoy sloop sailing on a daysail will not enjoy the ride until they are knocked on their butts in their light sloop.
racers will diss these boats as heavy. yes they are heavy, as they should be,. they were designed to sail trade winds.
go sail the boat, play with it, see if they will allow you to sleep in it overnight so you can bond with it, if you wish to buy it.
and as i stated earlier, i will be in mazatlan refitting my 41, why not bring yours there, after purchase. i have an excellent work crew.

btw--teak is very easy care wood, only made to appear difficult by those who desire a shiny come stealme look. teak dislikes varnish--loves sea water, and accepts oil readily as a sealant.

[Island Time O25]

Speaking of teak. The only time glossy varnish looks good is when it's done at the factory or if on the boat - by a very, very and I mean very professional finisher. In all other times the shine and gloss shows every imperfection which usually screams DIY (which defeats the purpose of the shiny look). I love my interior teak, lots of it. And I'm glad the POs kept it oiled and not varnished. Same for exterior teak although I haven't kept up with the oiling schedule there but the teak is not much worse for it, considering its age and lengthy exposure to the elements.

A few years back I remember passing on a decent older Sabre 34 (other than the initially unrealistic asking price) precisely because it's interior was varnished DIY and while it looked like the guy put in a lot of hours and effort into it, to put it mildly, he'd be ahead of the game just oiling the teak and asking (and getting) 1/2 or more of the initial asking price. He started at $49.9K, came down to $39K, then $29K and ended up last I heard of it lowering to $25K and selling her in the low $20s.

[Scout 30]

I have to agree about varnish, especially on the exterior where the sun just eats it up. We're now using the oil based version of Australian Timber Oil which is a big step up from regular teak oil. I put on one thick coat with a brush just cut in without tape because clean up is easy with mineral spirits. It keeps it's color, never peals & prep is just a light wash. The lighter colors need a recoat about twice a year. The darker colors like mahogany need it once a year.

[appick]

I hate to throw in my hat and hope I don'e incur the rage of Zee as I'm in her camp as a fixer upper kind of guy and respect her abilities and her thirst for knowledge. However, I owned a Formosa 34 which by way of designer I believe was a Bob Perry design. I bought it from a friends uncle at a ridiculously low price with shipping from PA to MI I had about $6k into it. My problems arose from the teak decks mostly.

Any boat this old may have deck issues true, but one with teak decks with 1000 plus screw holes that haven't been maintained 9 months out of the year in the sun of San Diego are guaranteed to have leaks. If you go to look at it look at the beautiful teak decks love them and dream. Then think of ripping them off with a ice scrapper or other shingle removing tools, because very likely that is what needs to be done. I know it did on mine and I tried in my ignorance to drill and epoxy soak the core ect, While just pulling up a few of the boards carefully... Long story short if I would've listened to the more experienced voices telling me to scrap the wood decks, fix the core issues and lay fresh glass over the 1000 plus screw holes in the deck, I still wouldn't have been able to save it. The decks rotted, the deck glass work was all chopped strand shot out or a chopper gun, almost no structural integrity. The bulkheads had rotted from the numerous leaks that filled the bilge. The whole deck was caving in under its own weight without the mast up, it was down at least 2 inches in the center! Looking at the deck from the undersides showed cracking in the glass work all over the place. It was very resin rich as well which isn't great for its limited strength.

It needed all that beautiful teak work torn out an fresh bulkheads put in throughout the boat. The tabbing to the hull for the bulkheads was very shoddy work and just one layer of chopped matte tape was used, it looked like it was torn from larger sheets of the stuff. Then there was the blister issues on the hull... and the poor quality deck fittings... and the rudder that needed replace...

Anyways I spent 2 years working on it from spring to winter. Finally gave up, signed the title over to the yard and walked away. I spent the next 7 years boatless . If I would've listened I could've had any number of 28-35ft boats for sale locally for around that price range that were ready to be dropped in the water. Sure they would've been ugly, or a chlorox bottle so what it's still better to be sailing. The next boat I finally got was almost 60 years old! So don't let that age thing scare you. The boat a Columbia 29 was very solid, ugly with neglect, but the engine ran and the rig was good. I got it for the cost of the back storage bill! There are deals to be found you just have to be in the right place at the right time.

Good luck I hope your love story ends better than mine did!

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Speaking of teak. The only time glossy varnish looks good is when it's done at the factory or if on the boat - by a very, very and I mean very professional finisher. In all other times the shine and gloss shows every imperfection which usually screams DIY (which defeats the purpose of the shiny look). I love my interior teak, lots of it. And I'm glad the POs kept it oiled and not varnished. Same for exterior teak although I haven't kept up with the oiling schedule there but the teak is not much worse for it, considering its age and lengthy exposure to the elements.

A few years back I remember passing on a decent older Sabre 34 (other than the initially unrealistic asking price) precisely because it's interior was varnished DIY and while it looked like the guy put in a lot of hours and effort into it, to put it mildly, he'd be ahead of the game just oiling the teak and asking (and getting) 1/2 or more of the initial asking price. He started at $49.9K, came down to $39K, then $29K and ended up last I heard of it lowering to $25K and selling her in the low $20s.

Well, that is just not true. If folks just asked around they would learn how to varnish which is actually easy to do. Most folks go gloss. Wrong. Go matte for interior and cut with tung oil. Or just skip the varnish and use tung oil. It will set up hard as varnish. That way you can just wipe it on. If you use varnish, quality brushes are essential. You also want to varnish into the wet and work it into the grains. Final brushing should be light and almost dry. For vertical, go down. For horizontal we go along and across with a final brush along the grain(one coat, three brush strokes). If the old varnish is still solid, then just wipe with a tack rag and then wipe with a lint free rag soaked in acetone. No need to sand. Works in our yards, should work for you.

[reed1v]

If your decks are weak from rot, consult a yard about having the entire deck cut out and replaced. Big job but rather straight forward. Cheapest and effective is to lay a structural deck right over top the old one and reinforce the bulkheads below. Dry out the old deck first. You might also raise the bulwarks so you still have a decent toe rail after the new deck is installed. Really no need to go ripping out the teak decks, plywood, and so forth. Unless you like to do lots of unrewarding work. Some fiberglass boats have structural fiberglass with cosmetic teak on top(Cheoy Lees, Hans Christians, etc). Then either just replace the teak or cover it with a non skid fabric.

Thus 1. know how your boat was built; 2. explore the options before assuming you got to rip stuff out; 3. Do the repair that is within your abilities and budget.