Need opinions on this boat

[LLCoolDave]

Thanks for everybody that has chimed in. I have a lot of food for thought. A have a couple general questions.

Since the boat has been in San Diego its whole life and used very lightly (only 1100 hours on a 40 year old motor) due the decks have a better chance of being preserved? I figure less humidity, less rain, salt water not being thrown over the bow because of heavy weather, etc. I agree with the comment to stay away from screwed on teak decks.

Also, even with my original budget of $50k +refit, that lands me in the boat years of 1975-1985. Just about any boat that old could have deck issues.

If I have a rigger and surveyor does the rigger inspect the boat while it's on the crane or does the boat have to be on the hard?

Cheechako stated a 30-50k refit budget. Is this if I do most of the work myself or if I have a boat yard take care of most things?

Once again, thanks to everyone.

[Terra Nova]

If you insist...

A rigging survey is done at the dock, not on the hard. An engine survey is done at the dock and sea trial. Then the boat is hauled for hull survey.

The fact that this boat has been mostly a live-aboard, only, should lead you to expect the very worst, not look for bizarre benefits which might accrue from the boat's disuse.

[Kalinowski]

Love a ketch rig. The $12k price certainly raises a flag. If the present owner has that level of boating experience, why would he take such an out of pocket loss? Perhaps he's just a generous soul?

[LLCoolDave]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

If you insist...

A rigging survey is done at the dock, not on the hard. An engine survey is done at the dock and sea trial. Then the boat is hauled for hull survey.

The fact that this boat has been mostly a live-aboard, only, should lead you to expect the very worst, not look for bizarre benefits which might accrue from the boat's disuse.

Thanks Terra, the boat has not been a liveaboard for most of its life. For 35 years it was owned by a wealthy owner in Coronado attached to a private boat dock on the back of a mansion. The owner mainly used the boat as an entertaining space. The current owner lives aboard 3 months out of the year and has only had the boat for 4 years or so. Of course all this is what I have been told/sold on and could be completely false. It's all speculation without a thorough survey.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

Thanks for everybody that has chimed in. I have a lot of food for thought. A have a couple general questions.

Since the boat has been in San Diego its whole life and used very lightly (only 1100 hours on a 40 year old motor) due the decks have a better chance of being preserved? I figure less humidity, less rain, salt water not being thrown over the bow because of heavy weather, etc. I agree with the comment to stay away from screwed on teak decks.

Also, even with my original budget of $50k +refit, that lands me in the boat years of 1975-1985. Just about any boat that old could have deck issues.

If I have a rigger and surveyor does the rigger inspect the boat while it's on the crane or does the boat have to be on the hard?

Cheechako stated a 30-50k refit budget. Is this if I do most of the work myself or if I have a boat yard take care of most things?

Once again, thanks to everyone.

I think Cheechako is trying to make a point rather than actually estimating an accurate refit budget. Without actually inspecting the boat it's not possible to estimate repair or refit costs & even then it's difficult. That being said the last thing you want to do is buy a $10,000 boat that needs an estimated $40,000 in repairs so you can stay within a $50,000 budget. You'd be much better off buying a $40,000 boat that needs $10,000 in repairs. That way you'll only spend $20,000 instead of $80,000 & 1 year instead of several.

[LLCoolDave]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

I think Cheechako is trying to make a point rather than actually estimating an accurate refit budget. Without actually inspecting the boat it's not possible to estimate repair or refit costs & even then it's difficult. That being said the last thing you want to do is buy a $10,000 boat that needs an estimated $40,000 in repairs so you can stay within a $50,000 budget. You'd be much better off buying a $40,000 boat that needs $10,000 in repairs. That way you'll only spend $20,000 instead of $80,000 & 1 year instead of several.

Good point, I was just thinking about resale value and a well known/good reputation/more expensive boat would offer a better resale value when the time comes to sell.

On a side note there is a beautiful CT35 in England (yachtworld) and after the exchange rate it comes out to around $50k

[JPA Cate]

LLCoolDave,

Cheekako and Terra Nova, on this one listen to that. Remember that it was failure of a plywood deck and the subsequent leakages then led to the sinking of the Rebel Heart. Inadequately repaired, they began leaking and the hull flexing more and more. Those people were saved, and the boat actually was scuttled, so it had not yet sunk, but....

Taiwan built boats had many flaws in construction, some of them hard to see.

Zeehag's mizzen mast got rot in it in her CT 41.

You know how body shop men will poke at a suspected rusty area with an icepick? The icepick test will show timber rot, too, but the owner would prefer you didn't do that.

I'd be concerned about any softness you can detect around any deck fittings.

As Taiwan boats did not always use good stainless, the chainplates are another area of concern, and although that engine is new, what about parts availability today?

What works and doesn't work. How old are the sails? Admittedly you can replace them piecemeal, but they do get blown out, or rotten, and if it's a So Cal boat, the sails are likely to be lightly built and will need replacement.

If the decks are sound, she could see you safe, but she is really not a daysailer. She is not nimble. She needs a lot of breeze, compared to the Catalina mentioned above, which would be a more responsive boat, and perhaps better suited to daysailing.

This is not to say she is a POS, she might have good decks, but in liveaboard use, that kind of maintenance tends to not get done. She needs to keep out drizzle, but So Cal is not known for torrential rains. Still, i would look both for termite damage and water damage.

Heed the concerns about the wiring, and see if those are skills you want to acquire.

You'll want to upgrade the VHF, too, but I wouldn't let the lack of electronics bother me, as you will want more modern, in any event.

Finally, if she still makes your heart go pitty-pat, and she passes surveys [i.e. no expensive ugly surprises] (suggesting an engine oil analysis, here), it will be a learning experience, for sure.

The jobs of the boat:
To keep you safe and dry
The rig adequate to sail with (new masts will be expensive), and the wire's not free
Engine reliability is a good deal.

Pick the quality that you are most capable of dealing with, and select a boat with that weakness, not either of the other two.

The asking price, by itself, tells me to expect more wrong with the boat than is immediately apparent. Which may or may not be okay with you, your $$, your call.

During the out of water survey, clean the growth off the prop, and check there is no electrolytic damage to it. Big props like that are expensive to replace, too.

[CS Cruiser]

Be careful you don't get what you pay for, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck........

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

Thanks for everybody that has chimed in. I have a lot of food for thought. A have a couple general questions.

Since the boat has been in San Diego its whole life and used very lightly (only 1100 hours on a 40 year old motor) due the decks have a better chance of being preserved? I figure less humidity, less rain, salt water not being thrown over the bow because of heavy weather, etc. I agree with the comment to stay away from screwed on teak decks.

Also, even with my original budget of $50k +refit, that lands me in the boat years of 1975-1985. Just about any boat that old could have deck issues.

If I have a rigger and surveyor does the rigger inspect the boat while it's on the crane or does the boat have to be on the hard?

Cheechako stated a 30-50k refit budget. Is this if I do most of the work myself or if I have a boat yard take care of most things?

Once again, thanks to everyone.

I was thinking if you do much of the work. But it's just a wild guess actually. The reality is , yard done work can be a big emotional, quality fiasco etc. A roll of the dice.
Also, A major rebuild with rotted deck and cabin can take years. Is that really what you want?
Of course all this is about the year and condition of the boat... you need to find that out. later CT's were glass decks and cabins (my '85 was) although with teak screwed on decks (that 's what the CT would be) You are still going to have core issues.
No not all boats are as big a risk. Any old boat without teak decks and fiberglass deck/cabin wont be near as big a problem. You need to find out more.
As many people have said on t his forum, the most expensive boat you can buy is often free. So take a deep breath and find out more.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I'm intimately familiar with CT. (Ta Chaio) The hulls are thick layup and strong. Often the Seacocks are the traditional bronze tapered type and are good quality. Tabbing of bulkheads etc can be sloppy with a lot of sharp , not fully wetted parts of the glass work. But generally mostly aesthetic issues.
Watch out for decks, deck cores and cabins. Depending on the year…. the cabin and or deck may be cheap asian plywood with glass over. These are quite often a big problem. Add to that teak decks screwed into the deck (even if it’s true fiberglass)and you have wet core. Often this core is cheap plywood squares.
You are going to want a good surveyor that “tells it like it is” on this type of boat. If original wiring it is likely on it’s last leg as they used poorly done wire ends and not tinned copper wiring.
Tanks may be a problem also, often they put SS in the bilge and they go bad fast.
The rudder will likely be waterlogged also.

These issues are not only CT issues, but they do prevail on many CT’s and especially on older 70’s ones.
Be very careful. Without knowing more, my guess would be you will put $30-50k into that boat. Find one that the PO has already spent that money and wants out... if this owner hasn't yet. A Westsail 32 may be as big as that , sail as well, probably $35k and less issues.
I wouldnt worry about the bottom paint at this point , it is not very effective anyway, you can deal with that later

The best response I have read. Sensible not blow hard.

[carlheintz]

As one who has owned its larger cousin, the CT-41, I can attest to them being fine boats. However, some things you must check VERY carefully.
1. Rot will occur in the plywood decks which are under the beautiful teak. They were glassed on top, but then most of the teak was screwed into them, giving a perfect entryway for stray water.
2. Check the chainplates VERY carefully, Go over all the standing rigging with a magnifying glass, using an ultraviolet lamp (to see any mineral deposits in the hairline cracks that will develop. The "stainless steel" used was often of a very inferior quality. Looked great, but developed cracks.
3. Check around all the ports for leaks. The portlights were not installed correctly, and water can get inside the cabin sides easily, out of sight and rot.
4. The painted masts are a real dilemma. They will rot from the inside out, or from any small lesion in the paint, as from a screw mounting something. My suggestion is to ultrasound it. Expensive, but it will find things. You must inspect every square inch of those. I would plan on pulling the sticks, sanding them down, liquid epoxy the ends and seams ( yea, they are made of several pieces of wood glued together) and varnish them. You will be able to spot any subsequent problems easier.
5. The bowsprint DOES have rot. Assume it does, because they do. Plan on replacing it at some point. Don't rely upon the staysail stay. It's probably not mounted correctly on the deck. Look for a substantial backing plate, and if not found, install.
6. Carefully inspect the deck/hull joint. Mine developed problems at random places from water that somehow crept in. A little rot here and there is to be expected. Anything over 4" long, or near a chainplate you need to fix.
7. My CT-41 was a post crisis boat. It had a few blisters, one of which was the oozing kind. Typically a hassle and a cosmetic thing more than a safety issue. When you pull it to do the bottom job, you'll find some dime to quarter sized ones. No big deal. Fix em and consider a barrier coat.
8. They don't call these things "Leaky Teakies" for nothing. Often the cabin top was made with non-marine grade ply, the deck fittings are mounted sloppily, and water gets in. Best you can do is find cracks and fill with liquid epoxy, re-seat all the deck fittings as you go along, and tighten things up.

After all that you probably are thinking, whew, I don't want this boat. Don't do that. If you are willing to invest a little time and work with her, she will be a delight to own. Remember, you won't win any races, but you will have a classy, delightful ride.

[zeehag]

ct 35 is a damnfine boat. 40 year old ct masts are probably thai cedar and excellent.
glassed in ply yes. teak yes. they are excellent boats. it took a furycame with 200 mph winds over me and bird to crack my thai cedar mast at the glue line below spreaders, as i had a wind genny on my masthead..dumb move.
those of us who appreciate formosa/ct understand the awe of the 35 and 36. there were not many built.
i was inside a 36-- really cool cruising boats and not as cumbersome as mine, th e 41 version.
sturdy and sail nicely.
btw--thai cedar outlasts sitka spruce by mebbe a decade or 15 yrs.
rot resistent, bug resistent, and glues well. so your 40 yr old masts are prolly in damnfine shape, as are mine, save one glue line crack from a hellovalotta wind. these are easily rebuildable, and perota wood makes excellent booms when replacing. cheap down here., also.

btw--40 yr old tanks are not an issue--reweldable nicely , and is not chinese stainless steel, btw, is usa stainless steel. remember taiwan was one that did not like red china, would not buy anything from there and was protected by usa. the tanks are stainless, not black steel as many seem to think. i just finished re welding much of my taiwan built tanks made of usa stainless steel a coupla weeks ago. 40 yrs old and still awesome . donot diss us iffn ye donot own one.

those of you dissing this potential purchase here in mexico because of time yada yada and price yada yada have NEVER had your boat reconstructed in mexico.
i have and am still doing this, and with a formosa 41..
perota wood is cheap and excellent . looks awesome..is also known as ipe, huanacaxtle, guanacaxtle, and is beautiful, and it as is thai cedar, resistent to rot and insects. yes even termites.
the ct and formosas are easy to repair while under way and they do stand up to the job at hand of sailing in weather, which is often found in soc.
they have character and are comfortable in a swell and blow

by the way--it costs 1200 pesos to have a perota wood boom built, and very little to have a mast built. i will be doing my maintenance of these in mazatlan. i have a good work crew there, unrelated to the known thugs
oh and if your lil heart goes pitty patter because of the boat, do buy it and bring it to mazatlan , e dock, we can work on our boats together, and rent is cheap, good work crew not affiliated with the fornatur yard.


exchange rate now is 18 to one usdollar. so, donot tell this nice person the boat will hurt his wallet, he is in perfect location to rebuild--i would leave guaymas, for mazatlan, however, as i have the people in mazatlan.
and NO your sprit does NOT have rot. it is of thai cedar. if it does, there are ways. as i sed--come to mazatlan to rebuild after purchase. you will not be sorry.
paint on masts is easily removed. epoxy then clear coat. no problem.

i am sorry i cannot make it to guaymas to inspect the boat. if you are in love, do buy it. come to mazatlan.
i know how to fix em. rodl. and for WELL UNDER 30 k that was sooo funny. sorry cheechako, but mexico is not usa and life is better as far as paying fo r boat repairs, even hired out are unrealistically cheap.good workmanship also.
remember this boat is in mexico---- i prolly already know this one, as i was involved with the purchase when a fella asked about them. went thru it - was perfect, and he repaired it...lol. then sailed it south. if htis is that boat--you are in good shape, as he did a lot of work before sailing out of san diego.

[carlheintz]

Amen, Zeehag!

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by zeehag

ct 35 is a damnfine boat. 40 year old ct masts are probably thai cedar and excellent.
glassed in ply yes. teak yes. they are excellent boats. it took a furycame with 200 mph winds over me and bird to crack my thai cedar mast at the glue line below spreaders, as i had a wind genny on my masthead..dumb move.
those of us who appreciate formosa/ct understand the awe of the 35 and 36. there were not many built.
i was inside a 36-- really cool cruising boats and not as cumbersome as mine, th e 41 version.
sturdy and sail nicely.
btw--thai cedar outlasts sitka spruce by mebbe a decade or 15 yrs.
rot resistent, bug resistent, and glues well. so your 40 yr old masts are prolly in damnfine shape, as are mine, save one glue line crack from a hellovalotta wind. these are easily rebuildable, and perota wood makes excellent booms when replacing. cheap down here., also.

btw--40 yr old tanks are not an issue--reweldable nicely , and is not chinese stainless steel, btw, is usa stainless steel. remember taiwan was one that did not like red china, would not buy anything from there and was protected by usa. the tanks are stainless, not black steel as many seem to think.

those of you dissing this potential purchase here in mexico because of time yada yada and price yada yada have NEVER had your boat reconstructed in mexico.
i have and am still doing this, and with a formosa 41..
perota wood is cheap and excellent . looks awesome..is also known as ipe, huanacaxtle, guanacaxtle, and is beautiful, and m as is thai cedar, resistent to rot and insects. yes even termites.
the ct and formosas are easy to repair while under way and they do stand up to the job at hand of sailing in weather, which is often found in soc.
they have character and are comfortable in a swell and blow

by the way--it costs 1200 pesos to have a perota wood boom built, and very little to have a mast built. i will be doing my maintenance of these in mazatlan. i have a good work crew there, unrelated to the known thugs

It may have a gun onboard. Sorry couldn't help myself.

[LLCoolDave]

Lots of great, thoughtful, and SOBERING posts. lol. Exactly what I needed. I will definitely put the brakes on and proceed with caution.

Big thanks to zeehag, good point about the mexican exchange rate as long as you have people you can trust.