Need help with a bad purchase

[albertjizhang]

Hey guys.

I am a newbie and way over my head. Please don’t judge me, I know I was stupid for the mistakes I have made.

Basically I found a boat in Italy, I went to check the boat out in February, I liked her( as I said, newbie and hot-headed). And I was not able to see the damage and problems that she had. I thought maybe a surveyor can point out the issues for me before purchase.

However, I didn’t speak Italian and didn’t know anyone from the region, and the broker seemed nice enough( me being naive) I asked the broker to find a surveyor for me. The survey arrived late for a month, during which the survey came up with many excuses, busy Easter, sick father etc. and eventually when I got the survey, it was written in a way that kind of mentioned all the problems, but in a unalarming way, I had a friend to read the survey with me, I’ll attach it in the post as well. And we didn’t see too much problems with it. During this whole time, the surveyor has contacted me two times, first time settling a price, second time asking for money, nothing else. Not replying email calls or text.
I was hotheaded and rushed to pay and seal the deal(stupid I know), but when I came live on the boat for a couple days, I found that the boat was not maintained at all for three years, everything was broken and the engine is basically not worth fixing anymore.
I have not paid for the survey yet, which is 500euro, I highly doubt this mere one page survey is worth that, i and doubt the accuracy of the survey, every last bit of it.
Later on my other friend that wen to the boat, and local mechanic that worked with the boat 3 years ago, told me the boat is worth 5000 max, which I paid 15000. Very expensive lesson learned.
Now the broker is asking me to pay the survey fee( yeah, the surveyor is still not answering calls or replying email). I wonder should I find another surveyor for a new survey, compare the two surveys and bring it to the police.

[albertjizhang]

No contract signed for the survey, nothing. Only one phone call when he told me in broken English that the price for survey is 500 euro

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Albert.

[Chotu]

It looks to me like the surveyor is not comfortable with English as a language. That could explain a lot of your experience.

Did you try to contact the surveyor in Italian?

Though the survey is not wordy, he appears to have inspected most of the boat and done all the work involved in a survey. And has an opinion on most every part of the boat. Where does your opinion differ from the survey above?

Also, what if you took a day and did some work and nobody paid you for it?

It’s easy enough for him to attach a lien to your boat as well. So you might as well make that payment.

[albertjizhang]

The communication between us is very limited, and it usually having the broker in between that translates everything.
Is this what a pre purchase survey is suppose to look like? I thought the survey is suppose to contain much more details.
The boat was sitting in water at marina for 3 years, I was suspicious about the moisture of the hull. The are multiple leaks that I found one night when it rained.

I wasn’t there when he did the survey, because I couldn’t get Italian visa at that time and I didn’t know when he is going to do the survey.

[Fore and Aft]

Albertjizhang that survey reminds me of the time I did a survey for a CEO of a big Australian company. He (Probably his secretary) condensed my 13 pages to a 3 page report and sent it back to me.
That report is basic but there is enough there to realise the boat is a project and buyer beware I would think.
I am not sure how a surveyor is going to find deck leaks unless you expect them to hose the deck down? If that is the case you should have specifically specified that. You should have had an independent engine and rigging report. The surveyor even mentions "If it works"
I would say Albert you have a bad case of buyers remorse and you should pay the surveyor. He told you in his report that there are some issues and you ignored his advice and still purchased the yacht. For sure the language barrier did not help. But even I can see that new upholstery, new deck paint, new compass, new sea chest, restore the staircase, skeg delamination, gunnel needs attention, rotten termanto?, new gas system, new toilet and sink. This boat in any language sounds bad.
Be glad it's only $15,000 and not more.

Cheers

[GordMay]

"The companion is soft, as the internal termanto is rotting"
= Rotten laminate core.

[mvweebles]

Careful about not paying. I don't know about Italy, but many countries have a "port captain" govt official who has authority over even recreational marinas. Possible the surveyor could prevent you from moving the boat. Pleading your case in a foreign country is an uphill climb.

Personally, I would hold-my-nose and pay the surveyor. Part of your tuition.

[Jammer]

The surveyor came, prepared a survey, and provided it to you. I note that the survey flags a number of relatively serious problems, including the engine ("somewhat dated and needs a complete maintenance"). "Fair condition" means, needs replacement but could perhaps be put off until next year.

I think it is a difficult case to make that the surveyor didn't do their job and doesn't deserve to be paid. Reading the survey, I conclude that the surveyor considered it a "project boat" that is not ready to sail. That you proceeded with the transaction anyway is on you.

[pcmm]

Simple question...If the surveyor told you the boat was worth $5000 max, why did you then go and pay $15000 for it? seems like an odd decision!

[tamicatana]

10 years ago a very good survey was worth far more than 500 euro. In fact, more like 2K usd. You got what you paid for, and even the brevity of that survey offered some serious warning flags.

This is all on you...

[goboatingnow]

In my opinion the survey while brief flags up sufficient warning points to make you think twice about the purchase. In this regard I see no reason why you would not pay the survey ( which is quite cheap ) the decision to purchase in the face of that survey is yours entirely.

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by GordMay

"The companion is soft, as the internal termanto is rotting"
= Rotten laminate core.

Would that just mean the companionway steps?
He mentions them later too.

Sounds like an ok project boat. As one would expect when paying only$15000.
Sounds like the problem is that you think you overpaid. Maybe so... maybe it's more work than you thought...but you could pay $100k for a boat and still have to spend a stack on it.
A learning experience.
But if you plug some leaks, you at least have a reasonably cheap waterfront holiday cottage in Italy.
Plenty of people spend that money to hang out in a new place for a few months and have an immersive experience and learn the language and lifestyle etc

[5BTM]

Signed or you not you have a valid contract (offer, acceptance, consideration)

Pay the surveyor, keep the boat, sell it for parts or scrap it.

Do over, being 15500 wiser.

Consider it tuition for a boat buying degree.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by albertjizhang

Hey guys.

I am a newbie and way over my head. Please don’t judge me, I know I was stupid for the mistakes I have made.

Basically I found a boat in Italy, I went to check the boat out in February, I liked her( as I said, newbie and hot-headed). And I was not able to see the damage and problems that she had. I thought maybe a surveyor can point out the issues for me before purchase.

However, I didn’t speak Italian and didn’t know anyone from the region, and the broker seemed nice enough( me being naive) I asked the broker to find a surveyor for me. The survey arrived late for a month, during which the survey came up with many excuses, busy Easter, sick father etc. and eventually when I got the survey, it was written in a way that kind of mentioned all the problems, but in a unalarming way, I had a friend to read the survey with me, I’ll attach it in the post as well. And we didn’t see too much problems with it. During this whole time, the surveyor has contacted me two times, first time settling a price, second time asking for money, nothing else. Not replying email calls or text.
I was hotheaded and rushed to pay and seal the deal(stupid I know), but when I came live on the boat for a couple days, I found that the boat was not maintained at all for three years, everything was broken and the engine is basically not worth fixing anymore.
I have not paid for the survey yet, which is 500euro, I highly doubt this mere one page survey is worth that, i and doubt the accuracy of the survey, every last bit of it.
Later on my other friend that wen to the boat, and local mechanic that worked with the boat 3 years ago, told me the boat is worth 5000 max, which I paid 15000. Very expensive lesson learned.
Now the broker is asking me to pay the survey fee( yeah, the surveyor is still not answering calls or replying email). I wonder should I find another surveyor for a new survey, compare the two surveys and bring it to the police.

The attached PDF is in no way a survey, not even close... its a summary document of a casual glace at a vessel (I would be embarassed to try to pass that off as a survey and I'm not a surveyor). I wouldn't pay the survey fee either until an actual survey document has been delivered.