My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

[paulanthony]

Originally Posted by Greenhand

If you want to be intellectual about it, it is an ironic redefining of the term when coupled with "research and sweat equity" in the same sentence.

Is it? - Ok! Thought for a minute there you were trying to wriggle off your own hook..

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by FastCruiser

What I was refering to was to wash the boat, it dosent need to be hauled, the bottom can be scrubbed with the boat in the water,

Hauling the boat to wash the bottom is a waste of money when it can be done in the water by yourself or a diver if you dont want to get your feet wet.

No a boat doesn't need to be hauled for a bottom cleaning however you are convicting the OP without knowing the full story.

Maybe in water scrubbing isn't allowed in the area. Has to be cleaned in a yard where the residue can be captured.

Maybe there's no one doing inwater cleaning in the area.

Maybe the marina is low cost and it's cheaper to do a short haul and pressure wash than in water cleaning.

Maybe he needed to do something to the boat that needed to be done out of the water.

Maybe he has health issues and can't dive.

Maybe he had a job that doesn't allow time to do the boat work.

Or maybe it was just easier or faster to send it to the yard.

Certainly better to do it yourself if you can. And certainly much better to be there when your boat is hauled to oversee the process, whatever is being done. But sometimes it just isn't possible or feasible.

[CharlesV]

Ok ive read the thread and all of you are forgetting something--unjust enrichment.

I didnt have this problem on a boat but recently did on my car. The estimate for work I needed was firm at $400. The shop didnt contact me again. When I picked up the car the bill was $1800 and if I remember right, 2-3 guys caught me as I was fainting and falling to the ground.

Long story short, I paid the bill without too much balking. Why? Because I knew that the shop could sue me for the repairs and win. Why? Because though the extra work wasnt authorized, who benefited from it? On the boat, the paint cant be removed and handed back to the repairer, YOU benefited from the paint. Thats called unjust enrichment because you benefited without paying. Shop wins.

Id go hat in hand, gently, diplomatically and negotiate. Have a firm understanding next time that writing or no writing, they cannot do any work without first calling for approval, period. Being clear, among friendly people, is what works.

Maritime or other law, principles remain and the courts have been clogged with the same cases since before fire was invented. In reading the OP I think the repairer wasnt dishonest, like my guy wasnt, they figured work was needed, that you had the money, so lets just do it. Thats what happened. There is no big deal here, enjoy your new paint job and be super clear next time.

[MarkSF]

Laws vary. In California, auto shops must contact you for authorisation for work beyond the original estimate. This does not apply to boatyards, although the one I deal with does operate according to that principle.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

That is really a shame. Pure male chauvinistic stupidity.

Just remind 'em of the hundreds of women who do things they'd never even dream of: astronauts, pilots, skippers (like you!), etc.

Then there's also this: I am the customer.

Works (sometimes) for even us guys!

Good luck.

Stu,

Is it chauvinistic or poor me. One side of a story is hard to figure out. Smarts talks a ******** walks. I've had women in high places dress me down, had a female bosses boss that I liked and I was a boss. So I guess it is a matter of prospective. I guess chauvinism does exist but a woman that can pin my ears back with her knowledge it ain't me.

[yotpop]

Whether it's paint on a boat, tyres on a car or a bottle of Sauvignon Plonk at a restaurant, if I hadn't asked for it, I wouldn't pay for it. Why would you? To pay your marina in this instance would just encourage them to carry out more unsolicited work. I cannot understand the general consensus which seems to advocate grovelling and negotiating. By all means have a civil chat but don't roll over. If the marina is unyielding and continues to demand payment, then I believe this situation moves to the criminal category - demanding with menaces. That is, pay us money you don't legally owe us or we'll seize your property. I'm sure Admiralty law does not apply to false, fraudulent or unsubstantiated claims. Essentially, if I most definitely hadn't authorised or requested a paint job, I would most definitely not be paying for one. Your legal claim for damages for humiliation, loss of enjoyment etc., would be a worry to the marina. I think this is a case where you need to stand firm.
On the other side of the coin, if this all started on one of those occasions when you had to drive home because your were too inebriated to walk, get your Mastercard out!

[captlloyd]

Wow. I can't believe what I am reading here. No wonder yards and marinas rip people off. Forget the service-life of bottom paint !! He didn't ask for it ! He didn't sign a work order or contract! You folks must just roll over. Ever think that he might want to paint the bottom himself? Probably not but it is possible. I don't care where you live, have a maximum amount put on the work-order or contract !! I can't imagine any yard/marina painting the bottom of a boat without something in writing.

[paulanthony]

Originally Posted by yotpop

Whether it's paint on a boat, tyres on a car or a bottle of Sauvignon Plonk at a restaurant, if I hadn't asked for it, I wouldn't pay for it. Why would you? To pay your marina in this instance would just encourage them to carry out more unsolicited work. I cannot understand the general consensus which seems to advocate grovelling and negotiating. By all means have a civil chat but don't roll over. If the marina is unyielding and continues to demand payment, then I believe this situation moves to the criminal category - demanding with menaces. That is, pay us money you don't legally owe us or we'll seize your property. I'm sure Admiralty law does not apply to false, fraudulent or unsubstantiated claims. Essentially, if I most definitely hadn't authorised or requested a paint job, I would most definitely not be paying for one. Your legal claim for damages for humiliation, loss of enjoyment etc., would be a worry to the marina. I think this is a case where you need to stand firm.
On the other side of the coin, if this all started on one of those occasions when you had to drive home because your were too inebriated to walk, get your Mastercard out!

There seems to be ambiguity. The OP is not sure himself if his memory serves him correctly. No paperwork either. I am not sure where verbal contracts sit in the hierarchy of American law or if there is a statute of law that obliges the contractor to only bill for signed for work orders. However, the Jury is still out coz it seems it is word v's word. IMHO I think most arbitrators would reach the same conclusion that has been generally reached in this thread which is.. It could be a mistake, however unless the contractor will acquiesce to this then there is simply no proof either way and as the client has been enriched, benefited in a way not overly superfluous to his current and future needs then it is better that a negotiated contribution be made by the client so that all can enjoy the summer and live happily ever after. Stand off's only make solicitors rich.

[paulanthony]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Wow. I can't believe what I am reading here. No wonder yards and marinas rip people off. Forget the service-life of bottom paint !! He didn't ask for it ! He didn't sign a work order or contract! You folks must just roll over. Ever think that he might want to paint the bottom himself? Probably not but it is possible. I don't care where you live, have a maximum amount put on the work-order or contract !! I can't imagine any yard/marina painting the bottom of a boat without something in writing.

The situation is confused.. "Also I'm pretty sure they asked if I wanted paint when I scheduled it and I said no. However this may not have happened and it may be a memory from last year when I had it hauled and washed. The mechanic/shopis a separate company from the Marina but I think the same people own it."

[scuba0_1]

Strange he has not replied again and up to 54 posts. As to paying for work not agreed on if you have nothing written you don't have to pay it just because they did I what's your work order say. Had a friend drop there suv off to get fixed they fixed it and it also was way over they had a estimate And a amount if over call disclaimer they paid up to that amount called the cops because they would not give them the car. Police gave the owner the car and they cashed the check. Didn't hear from them again. It's all in the work order I always write if over more than 200 stop and call will need new work order.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[nimblemotors]

Just say the hell with it, you're not paying, you're leaving the boat there.
Just buy a new better boat that has a shiny bottom already and put in a different marina.

[paulanthony]

Originally Posted by scuba0_1

Strange he has not replied again and up to 54 posts.

He is probably in a tug of war with his boat.. I hope we hear the outcome. watch this space I guess.

I am betting they came to an amiable conclusion. I doubt yards want hassle.

[PrairieBones]

Originally Posted by scuba0_1

Strange he has not replied again and up to 54 posts. As to paying for work not agreed on if you have nothing written you don't have to pay it just because they did I what's your work order say. Had a friend drop there suv off to get fixed they fixed it and it also was way over they had a estimate And a amount if over call disclaimer they paid up to that amount called the cops because they would not give them the car. Police gave the owner the car and they cashed the check. Didn't hear from them again. It's all in the work order I always write if over more than 200 stop and call will need new work order.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

I posted last night before bed and just got off work.

Wow, thanks for all the replies, I didn't expect 50 posts and an argument to break out.

I'll try to clear a few things up.

They called me back this morning and I spoke to the mechanic he said that the bearing isn't bad but will need to be replaced soon, but said it's not to bad that it needs to be done now. I will do it next year.

I'm going to go in tomorrow to talk to them so I didn't mention the paint.

It's a small marina and small boatyard, the boat is already back in the water for me.

Generally there are work orders signed, and they were supposed to call me before they hauled it. I've had them do other work, they've always been fair so I think it was a miscommunication.

They were backed up for 3 weeks because the travellift was broken so they were probably running in circles a little bit, got ahead of themselves hauled it washed it painted it before realizing there was no work order yet.

In regards to the 5 year paint - I put a question mark after saying the surveyor confirmed that because I was not sure if he had, only said that the paint was still good. And to be clear I think the previous owner only told me it was long term paint and I had 5 years in my head but if it is 3 that makes sense, then it likely would have needed paint anyway.

The survey I had was not a purchase survey it was an insurance survey a year after I bought the boat. (Last summer). The paint was in good shape regardless, and the boat has only been out a couple times since then.

This is what the surveyor said regarding the bearing:

"The cutless bearing has some movement to it. Bearing should be monitored for further wear."

I have only run the boat an hour on motor since. However after thinking about it, it's good that they did mention it and ask if I should have it replaced, I told them not to this morning, is it a mistake waiting until next year?

Is it not common to haul the boat to wash it if the paint is still good, or should I be repainting it every year? I'm in the PNW so the water isn't exactly warm for me to dive in and scrub. It has a folding prop and last year after winter I had a problem with it being stuck closed due to growth and needed to haul it and wash it. (that is also when I had the insurance survey done.)

I needed it to be hauled anyway because I wanted the fuel drained and that is something that they will not allow me to do at the dock.

I will go in to talk to them tomorrow, I'm not sure what the cost is yet. I just wanted to get some opinions, what should the cost be to paint? It is a Catalina 27.

Thanks for the replies, except the dude that flamed me. I'm a new boat owner but I'm learning.

[Arthur Garfield]

A whole lot of wackiness going on with this one !

Firstly-yard saying they're "all backed up"- Then why did they pull it? No sense in this!
Painted without owner authorization- admiralty doesn't always hold up,though they have boat and they'll lie saying OP authorized.
OP not quite responsible by not being totally involved!

Best pay and get Your op head right ! with next yard. meaning-no work without written authorization ! And get that in writing !
Learn from errors.



All the Best

[fjwiley1]

If you don't mind, let us know how you resolve this.....😊