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Old 23-10-2020, 11:45   #31
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Re: Motion sickness

FWIW, for those unfamiliar, Pubmed is a free online index of practically all medical studies done worldwide. At minimum the abstract is typically published, while the entire study may/may not be visible without paying someone (but, if one desires the entire study, often going to google and doing a .pdf-type search will yield a full-text/graphic copy of the study).

The below are a few abstracts gleaned on relative risk of Stugeron(cinnarizine). None speak to a crewmember taking pills for a day or three, but they provide some context for consideration. Clearly the supermajority of people won't have problems, but how does one define the term safe.

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Eur J Clin Pharmacol 2017
Risk of parkinsonism induced by flunarizine or cinnarizine: a population-based study

Methods: Data were obtained from the National Health Insurance Research Dataset of Taiwan. Patients receiving flunarizine or cinnarizine for more than 1 month between 2000 and 2005 were enrolled.

Results: The study and control groups consisted of 9830 subjects. In the study group, 280 patients (2.9 %) were diagnosed with parkinsonism with a median observation period of 1.2 years, and 49 participants (0.5 %) were diagnosed in the control group with a median observation period of 1.9 years. The adjusted hazard ratio for parkinsonism among patients receiving flunarizine and cinnarizine was 5.117 (95 % CI = 3.758-6.967).

Conclusions: This study demonstrates that flunarizine and cinnarizine significantly increase the risk for parkinsonism. The treatment benefits of these two agents should be balanced with this adverse effect. Physicians must look carefully for early signs of parkinsonism in patients treated with flunarizine and cinnarizine.
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Mov Disord 1998
Cinnarizine-induced parkinsonism: ten years later

Abstract
A retrospective study was carried out to investigate the evolution of patients diagnosed with cinnarizine-induced parkinsonism (CIP) over the past 15 years. A total of 74 cases of CIP were found among 172 patients with drug-induced parkinsonism (DIP). Both CIP and other DIP were significantly more frequent in women. No clinical differences between CIP and other DIP were found. Most of the patients (66 of 74) completely recovered after cinnarizine withdrawal in 1-16 months. Eleven patients later developed Parkinson's disease; four of them had previously recovered. Five patients had tardive dyskinesia. CIP accounts for a high proportion of DIP referred to neurologists in populations in which cinnarizine is widely prescribed. The symptoms typically resolve after drug withdrawal, although complete recovery may take more than 1 year.
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Clin Neuropharmacol 1991
Cinnarizine-induced parkinsonism. Susceptibility related to aging and essential tremor

Abstract
Age at onset in 24 consecutive cinnarizine-induced parkinsonism (CIP) patients referred during a 2-year period was compared with 102 newly referred cases of Parkinson's disease (PD) examined during the same period. Not only did CIP onset occur at a greater age than PD (70.6 + 1.4 years versus 60.1 + 1.1 years), but the number of CIP cases increased steadily with age, whereas the incidence of PD patients peaked between the ages of 55 and 60 years, as is usually the case. At the time of referral, 62% of CIP cases and 14% of PD cases were over the age of 70, suggesting that advanced age was not a source of referral bias. A structured questionnaire prospectively given to 24 CIP patients revealed a history of tremor in at least one family member in 56% of the cases, whereas the incidence was much lower in 124 PD cases (17%) and 102 hospitalized nonneurological patients aged over 65 (6%). Moreover, three of the CIP patients themselves had a history of essential tremor previous to the onset of parkinsonism. CIP patients had frequently been exposed to the drug for years before developing any extrapyramidal symptoms (mean exposure, 4.1 +/- 4 years; range 4 months to 15 years). Though controlled epidemiological studies are needed to evaluate the possibility that cinnarizine is increasingly prescribed in the general population with advancing age, our data suggests that aging plus a background of genetically determined essential tremor represented critical risk factors for development of this drug side effect.
[["exposed for years" may include intermittent dosing]]
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Old 23-10-2020, 13:22   #32
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Re: Motion sickness

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It is a blend of essential oils
lol "essential oils" are for cooking and making cocktails. There's a much science behind essential oils as there is sticking pins in a wax doll or making incantations in a fog of incense smoke while wearing a funny hat, but....

Seasickness is often in the mind as much as the body. Its often fear based for example. For some people the cure is less physical than mental. If they BELIEVE something will work, it often works
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Old 24-10-2020, 01:54   #33
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Re: Motion sickness

Because, for many people, time at sea eventually cures seasickness I would say that it probably would help, then keeping on top and busy and as in comment above, on the helm Seasickness is triggered in the balance mechanism of the ear, and how the brain reacts to it. Anything that helps the brain learn to deal with it must be good, and the trepidation, fear if you like, should be taken seriously. Although some people may physically not be able to ever get over it I (believe) that most can in time, and taking medication may only extend that time and so should be reduced as rapidly as possible.
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Old 24-10-2020, 02:17   #34
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Re: Motion sickness

I too suffer from seasickness and have successfully used Stugeron (available over the counter in UK). On a charter a few years ago i ran out of my magic pills and a friendly nurse who was on a nearby boat gave me some Qwells. These are used ( she told me) for post op patients to stop vomiting. I took about three over the week and weirdly have never been seasick since. Whether the seasickness just ‘wore off’ or i grew out of it i have no idea. I am not any kind of medical professional neither do i have any financial interest in Qwells
( indeed i have never even bought a single one) but i just thought it may be worth a try for other people given its outstanding ( or coincidental) success in my case.
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Old 24-10-2020, 02:41   #35
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Re: Motion sickness

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Originally Posted by Malabarista View Post
I too suffer from seasickness and have successfully used Stugeron (available over the counter in UK). On a charter a few years ago i ran out of my magic pills and a friendly nurse who was on a nearby boat gave me some Qwells. These are used ( she told me) for post op patients to stop vomiting. I took about three over the week and weirdly have never been seasick since. Whether the seasickness just ‘wore off’ or i grew out of it i have no idea. I am not any kind of medical professional neither do i have any financial interest in Qwells
( indeed i have never even bought a single one) but i just thought it may be worth a try for other people given its outstanding ( or coincidental) success in my case.


Perhaps you mean Kwells? Hyoscine hydrobromide, 300 mg. available over the counter in the uk. My wife takes half a tablet with good results. A full dose makes her drowsy.
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Old 24-10-2020, 06:39   #36
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Re: Motion sickness

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Indeed.
According to several vendors, Motioneaze contains a magical blend of 100% natural oils (lavender, peppermint, frankincense, chamomile, myrrh, ylang ylang and birch).
The Kwells reminded me... It could be mentioned that hyoscine is (to use marketing vernacular) an essential oil of the nightshade plant, also known as devil's breath, also known as scopolamine.

In other words the most studied drug for motion sickness that is universally considered effective is a plant extract, an essential oil (if made in a lab nowadays for ease).
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Old 26-10-2020, 06:56   #37
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Re: Motion sickness

We did a great podcast on seasickness with John and Amanda Neil global adventurers who also take guests on board. They deal with this issue a lot and have become experts. The podcast is here: https://soundcloud.com/nauticed/15-a...ss-seasickness
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Old 26-10-2020, 07:30   #38
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Re: Motion sickness

I am astonished that "remedies" for seasickness containing essential oils applied to one's skin are taken seriously by anyone. There IS an authority on the subject, an authority that has a substantial interest in having a correct result, one that 'believes' in empiricism (the very idea that science is an element of belief makes me wonder how many 'believe' in gravity).

That authority is the U.S. Navy, the remedy is scopolamine, and it has two modes of application: https://www.med.navy.mil/sites/nmrc/...px?StoryID=221

The folks I have been cruising with for the past decade use the patch, and it works. My wife obtained it (by prescription, of course), and learned that one needs to adhere the patch properly for it to work well.

There are folks, like Admiral Lord Nelson, who are susceptible. He wrote: "I am ill every time it blows hard and nothing but my enthusiastic love for the profession keeps me one hour at sea."

Then there are folks like me (who shares a birthday with Nelson) who has been cruising and racing in the inland lakes, the great lakes, and offshore for 50 years and who was queasy once. That was in the St. Pete-Fort Lauderdale race in 1971, when it blew over 30 in a norther and I had to go forward to change down. I realized (1) that I was a bit scared, (2) that I had a safety harness on, and (3) all I was going to get was wet, not dead. Never queasy again.
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Old 26-10-2020, 07:31   #39
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Re: Motion sickness

It seems bazaar, but I heard of putting an ear plug in just one ear ??? haven't tried it... but if the shoe fits ...
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Old 26-10-2020, 07:52   #40
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Re: Motion sickness

For folks who tell me they are "prone" to motion sickness, I encourage them to take a 25mg (children's chewable) dramamine......hours before coming aboard if possible. If not, then have them take it as you are making final preparations to get underway.

This low-dose has a psychological effect, too. And shouldn't make them too drowsy (if at all). Maybe take 1 or 2 more times, in 4-6 hour intervals until you are well underway. Then once they get their sea legs, a can of ginger ale and some ginger chews are made readily available for them (in case they start feeling any queasiness).

I've done it myself, when crewing on long voyages, just to be "safe".
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Old 26-10-2020, 07:53   #41
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Re: Motion sickness

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Phantom Jim, I know it is not trendy these days to believe in science, but I do.

So how about we discuss the science behind this over the counter anti-motion sickness snake oil? What is in it, how does it work?

And your suggestion, Just try it, what do we have to lose?

Well this actually is an irritation to me: What you suggest is that we should try anything and everything which comes along, what do we have to lose?

How about, put dog-do on your back, what do you have to lose?

I looked for information about it. There is NOTHING from anyone who isn't selling it.

The ingredients appear to be "Lavender, Peppermint, Frankincense, Chamomile, Myrrh and Ylang Ylang"

Sorry, this is snake oil.
Whoa.

A little triggered there Wingsail, eh?

Science? Where do all the ingredients that "Science" puts into prescription drugs come from anyway? Trendy?

Phantom Jim, thanks for sharing your experience. All ideas and experiences always welcome. And we can all then make our choices and conclusions... free of well, you know.
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Old 26-10-2020, 08:12   #42
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Re: Motion sickness

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Science? Where do all the ingredients that "Science" puts into prescription drugs come from anyway? Trendy?
lol. There are two kinds of "alternative medicine"; the kind that works, and the kind that doesn't.

Know what they call the kind that works?

Its called "medicine"
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Old 26-10-2020, 08:26   #43
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Re: Motion sickness

Jackdale...now That's Funny!
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Old 26-10-2020, 08:27   #44
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Re: Motion sickness

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lol. There are two kinds of "alternative medicine"; the kind that works, and the kind that doesn't.

Know what they call the kind that works?

Its called "medicine"
Of course it is true that a fair bit of medicine once was a folk remedy (foxglove leaves, willow bark), and granted that there's a certain amount of consensus involved in the process of scientific exploration, testing, and documentation, where the 'consensus' is agreement on data, not anecdote.

But to suggest that anyone is "triggered" by science and data, that something is "trendy" in the process of science? Good grief.
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Old 26-10-2020, 08:30   #45
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Re: Motion sickness

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Originally Posted by flightlead404 View Post
lol. There are two kinds of "alternative medicine"; the kind that works, and the kind that doesn't.

Know what they call the kind that works?

Its called "medicine"
There are plenty of failures - in "medicine" and "alternative medicine" alike - and dangerously and tragically so.

Amazing sometimes what triggers people. Insecurity and fear is usually in there somewhere.

To be clear - I'm not - and nor was the original poster about a product he used - saying one particular type of treatment is better than another.

All I'm saying is we all have our experiences and conclusions - and that we certainly have the right to voice and share them with others. To offer them - not push them on someone.

And that is - importantly - without being ridiculed or trashed by someone else who has had different experiences or thinks differently.
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