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HankOnthewater · 08-08-2020, 22:09

As said before, stackpack with new sails would be most economical, followed by an in-boom furling system, followed by in-mast furling.
I sailed a smaller Cheoy Lee ketch motor sailer (43 ft), really liked it. Yes, it sailed quite well. I assume this is a 63 ft one?
Maybe worth spending the money,..... if the boat is in good condition.

Captain Bligh · 08-08-2020, 23:19

Thank you!. Im not positive bus I think the existing sails are fully battenned. I am not experienced with these except on a windsurfer. The main boom is accessible from the coach roof. But the head and luff of the mainsail are not accessible from that area. There are foldout footsteps up the mast, but it seems precarious at best. Maybe a stack pack will work if I can make the head of the sail more accessible when the sail is down. That would require some sort of footlines or fabrication to allow one to work that area withectheir feet 5ft off the deck.
Survey is Friday so I can pay more attention to what the current process is for unfurling and furling the sail. I can also get exact measurements as needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivevon

Crikey! That looks like a hefty old boat. As I see it you have a number of options. You say the main boom is 7 to 8 feet above the deck but it doesnt look quite so high off the coachroof. Can't see the mizzen boom so clearly.

Easiest & cheapest is to fit a stackpack with lazyjacks, & also mast steps up to within reach of the boom on both masts. You then fit six reefing lines on the mainsail for 1st, 2nd & 3rd reef. 3 new lines to pull down on the luff, and the 3 separate (existing?) lines for the leech. (You might only need 1 or 2 reefs for the mizzen?)
These lines can run back to the cockpit or be operated at the mast, as you choose. At the mast will mean a lot less friction in the system. Make sure your sail slides are well lubricated (McLube Sailcote) & you can use the 3rd reef line as a downhaul when dropping the sail (or you could fit a downhaul line to the headboard, maybe running within the reef line rings? - that way you could get the sail all the way down while staying on the deck.)
Your stackpack is your built in sail cover, but you still need access to it at the start & end of the weekend so as to zip it up & also fit the bonnet around the mast to cover the front of the sail. Thats what the mast steps are for & hopefully you can reach up to the zip from the coachroof or cockpit seats?

You may choose/need to tie a cord to the zip slider to give extra length to reach it. If you do that, I strongly suggest you fit 2 zips to the stackpack, one for the front half, one for the back half of the stackpack, arranged so that when the sail is UP, the zip sliders & their cords are in the middle of the boom, so there is no chance of them getting caught up in the reefing line when reefing & then pulled right inside the boom (also breaking the zip & maybe jamming the reef line). I wish I had done it that way myself the first time....

2nd option & definitely would be my favourite is to do that as above but also retrofit your sails so they are fully battened, with roller cars on the track. Your sails will drop like venetian blinds - you wont need any downhauls. Dont grab the moving halliard (even if you are wearing gloves.)

Your other options are going to be the most expensive - to retrofit either in-mast or i-boom furling systems. I'm guessing you will also need new sails for either of those options.

Hope that helps.

Captain Bligh · 08-08-2020, 23:23

I was in contract on the sistership of this boat and it had the profurl system. It was really simple to operate. But the deficiency of poor aerodynamics was obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

My friends boat is a cheoy lee 63' and he does have in mast furling for the main and mizzen. Probably best to give pro furl and a few other furling shops a call and see if they have an external furling model or if something will need to be fabricated.

Captain Bligh · 08-08-2020, 23:27

That is similar to the pro furl system I saw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthCoastJoe

You might check out this: Mainsail Reefing Systems â€” Cruising Design International

I was on a 38 foot steel boat that had one and it worked well, was kind of fun to have the mainsail wrapped up in a minute.

I have thought about one for the Downeaster 38, but have other work that needs to get done first.

Captain Bligh · 08-08-2020, 23:54

Yes. Im just not sure the head of the sail is accessible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

Easiest and cheapest would be to get a stackpack. If you don't mind climbing on top while docked then lazy Jack's and modify your sail covers.

Captain Bligh · 08-08-2020, 23:58

I understand where you are coming from. But I know I am buying motorsailer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meirriba

If you want to sail (not motor) and actually use sails most if the time, you will do better if you buy different boat.
It is a well built vessel, but not intended to enjoy wind sailing. Any solution proposed above will work only partially.
MHO of course...

Captain Bligh · 09-08-2020, 00:00

Thanks. I will check them out. My instinct tells me its pretty expensive. But not as expensive as new masts for in mast furling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vpbarkley

Consider in-boom furling systems for both.

There is the Forespar Leisure Furl and Shaefer Boom Furling systems among others.

Captain Bligh · 09-08-2020, 00:00

Thank you. I will check it out

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEAN2140

Someone mentioned an in boom system. If that interests you (very expensive) take a look at the current edition of Yachting World. It has an article which critiques the pros and cons.

David Pakes · 09-08-2020, 05:55

I agree with your approach – you want to avoid having to go forward on deck as much as possible and particularly wrestling with sails etc in a seaway.
On my boat I rarely have to leave the cockpit to adjust sails.
I have a furling genoa/yankee on the forestay and a furling staysail on the inner forestay. Both work exceedingly well and I have never had any problems. I service them at the start of every season.
My mainsail is in-mast furling. When it works I love it and, in light weather, it doesn’t matter what tack I am on when I want to set or furl it.
I have never had any problems furling but, on occasions, have had problems unfurling. The impression I get is that, somehow, the sail unfurls a bit when furled inside the mast and when I want to unfurl it, it gets stuck. My SOP to fix this is to refurl the sail as tight as I can then slowly unfurl it, it might take several tries before it comes smoothly out. I might be doing something wrong but, in my defence, sometimes there are no problems whatsoever and other times it’s a pain in the backside and when you least expect it.
So, I have often contemplated an external mainsail furler assuming that it will perform as well as the headsails as there would be no friction like the inside of a mast, although I have no experience with this system whatsoever. So, I suggest, talk to those who have an external mainsail furler.
Whatever, anything you can do to minimize leaving the cockpit is worth looking at seriously. Your partner will also be much happier – my wife and other sailing partners I know don’t like it when the skipper leaves the cockpit and goes forward, with or without harnesses, jacklines, etc. The thought of you going over the side is horrendous. Stay in the cockpit.
Good luck.

**boatman61** · 09-08-2020, 06:53

Your cheapest simplest option is this.. Mini single line furler.
The picture shows how it would work on a jib but, no reason it would not work on a main and mizzen using your existing sails.
Remove mast slides from sail..
Attach the swivel to the top and the drum to the bottom of the sail, lead single line back along boom to handy spot where you can fit a jammer or cleat to secure it.
Attaching drum to your boom you would have to figure but several possible options come to mind.
Hoist the sail to max tautness then furl..
Oh.. Nearly forgot.. you will need a slide for the clew to keep it to the boom as in goes on and out and while sailing.
PS.. Will not work with full horizontally battened sails.. or any battens.

Clivevon · 09-08-2020, 07:38

Hi again. These Accessibility issues are arising because it is such a Relatively big boat. Lucky you.
With the stackpack you only really need to access it when you are closing up to leave The boat, to protect the sail from long term uv damage. Presumably you will be in flat water at the dock or mooring then, so using mast steps shouldnt be that bad. You could always wear a harness & clip on to a halliard with someone else keeping tension on that, or there are rock climbing ascenders you could use if alone at the time.
Or else just carry a domestic aluminium step ladder on deck?? They are really lightweight & solve that accessibility problem altogether.

The lazyjacks keep the Lowered sails Contained at sea. Use the boathook to pull the halliard down around a cleat so the sail cannot possibly get blown up the track. If you should need to put sail ties round the sails just in case then just throw them over the boom , put one end through a loop pull toght & secure on deck somewhere maybe?
Of course the traditional solution to this access problem was very simple. A footrope under the yards. Still used on square rig sail training ships. Just be sure to clip on to that Halliard. You will get some looks at the dock i am sure..

Clivevon · 09-08-2020, 10:10

See this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footrope

barnakiel · 09-08-2020, 10:41

Regular slabs will work here.

But you may want to invent some device to easily and safely get to that main boom neck.

b.

Captain Bligh · 09-08-2020, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivevon

See this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footrope

I thought of this. But when you work a square sail, the sail is under the spar and your body weight is on the spar as well as the foot line. If I tried that on this spar, I would just fall off backwards as I would only be able to hang onto a loose sail. But maybe some type of goofy platform can be fabricated on the mast. Then again , if I’m going get be that elaborate , boom furling seems like the way to go. I’ll try to get more pictures during survey.