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stefano_ita · 22-12-2015, 03:56

Hi all,

I'm looking for the most robust, heavy duty, reliable boat maker over there for full time liveaboard, ocean crossing (and would like also polar region...but let's limit it to high latitute cruising)

No problem if it's slow, or not a reaching performance sailboat...
No ex charter, no mass production last generation disposable leasing chartering boat

Dimension about 50-55 ft, max 60ft.

It mast have at least 4-5 berths (better if 5-6) above the owner cabin (for occasional chartering, the only way to earn some money)

Material, not steel for sure, maybe alluminium, and what you think about the 30 and more old sailboat with polyurethane resins? The old one replaced by epoxy resing, the one that get the hull delaminated after 20 years...

Price max 80.000 including final refit and customization, so max 60- max max 65.000.

I have to admit that i really like the pilothouse (like the SP cruiser), the trawler style, with an enclosed space with a table at least for eating looking at the sea while ouside is cold would be great.

Sloop and easy rigging are better, but also ketch no problem, i like free standing mast (freedom yacht ) but quite expensive and max is 44 ft..Some bruce roberts design maybe?

What about as soon as i get to boat, get it on the hard, make it get dry for 2 weeks or more, sand anti fouling, and cover ALL the hull with a good layer of epoxy resins?
Then add coppercoat on it, just to be sure it's like a new watertight and stiffened hull (more or less), no osmosis, no problem,ecc...

These 2 are the only affordable in alluminium

The fastest, but not many other info.

1978 Canning Sloop Vela Barca in vendita - www.yachtworld.it

The best, the almost perfect but 2 x engine!

1982 Hydra 46 Vela Barca in vendita - www.yachtworld.it

One like this but with 2 x sail area (original only 57 square meter, while a same size sailboat about 100 square meters) and a keel (found used but only 150k to 450k usd...and it's a motorsailer, not a true sailboat)

SP Cruiser - Yacht Island Packet
I even found some old icebreaking steel tug, very fascinating, quite good fitted for 50.000 euro...20.000 of sails, keel, and refit and it's done

but too beamy to be decently fast (meaning 3-4 kts) only with wind

Thanks all for the help and the idea
Stefano

Lizzy Belle · 22-12-2015, 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefano_ita

It mast have at least 4-5 berths (better if 5-6) above the owner cabin //
The best, the almost perfect but 2 x engine!

This one only has 2 guest cabins - you need at least 4 or more?

You want to buy in / near Italy or also look elsewhere and sail your boat to Italy or have her delivered?

garrobito · 22-12-2015, 04:57

..shopping around.. have a couple nice custom design like you asked..
Or get a Nordhavn 56 motorsailer for 1,2 millons...

stefano_ita · 22-12-2015, 05:06

Also no problem travelling around the world to get it ( just remember the 22% import tax ��)

More cabin is better...4/5berth would be the minimum plus the owner...

I saw the northavn, i would get it but it doesn't sail well�� its not for the 1.2 million..ironic mode off

Lizzy Belle · 22-12-2015, 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefano_ita

( just remember the 22% import tax)

There's EU countries with a lower tax rate.
Google is your friend - and plenty of topics about importing boats on this forum too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefano_ita

4/5berth would be the minimum plus the owner...

OK, so the perfect boat wasn't perfect at all - too many engines, too few berths

To be honest, I can't think of a boat with that many berths within your other requirements

stefano_ita · 22-12-2015, 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

There's EU countries with a lower tax rate.
Google is your friend - and plenty of topics about importing boats on this forum too.

OK, so the perfect boat wasn't perfect at all - too many engines, too few berths

To be honest, I can't think of a boat with that many berths within your other requirements

Yeah i know about different vat around europe....but i need to flag it as italian flag to charter it the famous 42 days a year, that means tha i can't temporally import it (from extra EU country)...

The greek boat is getting me interesting...

Time to move on the plastic

Steadman Uhlich · 22-12-2015, 06:32

Is your boat sale price limit of 65,000 Euros or Dollars?

Also, what you described made me think of the Bruce Roberts steel boats that are 54 feet long. Most would be built in 1980s at that price point today.

Whatever boat you buy that is used and 50+ feet in length, I think you will need a larger budget for refitting it if you want to travel safely to high latitudes and if you expect to charter the boat.

In addition to the yachtworld listings site, I also suggest you look at a USA site called "sailboatlistings.com" as it is a FSBO ( for sale by owner) listing site.

Within your price range, a boat GRP or fiberglass boat that has TWO twin cabins (sleeping four) forward, and a nice raised deck saloon or pilothouse, AND a nice double masters cabin aft, is the Dufour CT12000 boat. Do a search for those. I see them listed in France and Caribbean occasionally. They were built about 1984. I will post a layout below.

Another boat I saw recently that would fit your requirements is a boat made by "Mapleleaf" and I have seen a 50 foot (asking $99k) and 56 foot too. However, it is unlikely you will find one for selling price of just $65k (if that is your maximum amount in dollars), more likely $100k -125k.
Good luck on your search!

Steadman Uhlich · 22-12-2015, 07:06

Here is a listing for the Dufour 12000CT and this one looks to be in nice condition. 1979 Dufour 12000 Ct Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Notice the two private twin cabins forward and the raised deck saloon and inside helm.

Kenomac · 22-12-2015, 07:20

Stefano,

There's a small group of us happily traveling around the world in our 2002 Oyster 53 sailboats. Currently, ours is in Italy and I would be pleased to show it to you when I return in early May. My friend Sully along with his wife and two small children just crossed the Atlantic over to St Lucia in his 53, and will be returning to Genoa in July. Derek and his family crossed the Pacific from Seattle, Washington, USA and are now somewhere in New Zealand.

The Oyster 53 is perfect for what you have planned. Come join us.

Oops... I just saw your budget, I'll put my thinking cap back on.

One make comes to mind... 1980's Bowman.

stefano_ita · 22-12-2015, 07:20

I saw bruce roberts design (i'm a kind of boatbuilder wanna be...)

And then found this, steel and very well maintained, found another one similar same price with rust, scracth, ecc

1993 Bruce Roberts Custom Vela Barca in vendita - www.yachtworld.itLet'sa say maximum 80-85.000 euro, all included...

Lol we are looking the same, the panama one's is way better, nice, 4 berth for guest plus owner...it looks nice

Schooner...nice looking but less working..I really like the cutter ketch design even more to work to mantain all the sails, ecc

http://www.yachtworld.it/barche/1981...s#.VnlRe1JrrIU

stefano_ita · 22-12-2015, 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Stefano,

There's a small group of us happily traveling around the world in our 2002 Oyster 53 sailboats. Currently, ours is in Italy and I would be pleased to show it to you when I return in early May. My friend Sully along with his wife and two small children just crossed the Atlantic over to St Lucia in his 53, and will be returning to Genoa in July. Derek and his family crossed the Pacific from Seattle, Washington, USA and are now somewhere in New Zealand.

The Oyster 53 is perfect for what you have planned. Come join us.

If you need a little extra room, there's also the Oyster 56.

Lol are you a Oyster reseller?

Joking, it would be nice to meet and take a trip on your oyster 53

Now i'll give a look at some of them...

I really think that pilothouse is a must have, with living, due as liveaboard you pass 70-80% of your time at the hook, and i don't want to stay buried in the hull if outside is cold or bad weather...

I saw maximum oyster 435 at 80-90k...

I'm going to buy bruce roberts design and build it...

if it would be a little cheaper

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1973/Bowman-46-2840406/Spain#.VnlidlJrrIU

1973...mh...too old to last even i quite like it
p.s. http://www.gonesailing.com/Documents/dufour.pdf

Hell what a very nice boat a very low price, looks too much beautiful be true

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/cgi-bin/saildata/db.cgi?db=default&uid=default&sb=33&so=descend&pri ce-gt=1&websearch=1&manufacturer=&model=&length-gt=48&length-lt=&year-lt=---&year-gt=---&price-lt=85000&type=---&material=---&hull=---&state=&view_records=+Show+Matching+Boats+

stefano_ita · 22-12-2015, 08:13

This according to you can be a bluewater cruise??...Looks like the freeboard is quite short...

1993 Omega 56 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

sepeteus · 22-12-2015, 22:45

Dont want to spoil the party....... but.......
Our 57 foot blue water cruiser just had her standing rigging replaced with new and only that cost $60k.
I am sure there is passage maker for that money, but how much to spend to get it up to speed?
cheers