Looking For Liveaboard's Couple New Boat

[Lizzy Belle]

Thx Brian, and right back at you

I wasn't so much thinking you're American - just making a general comment and left it at "American" cos most members here are Americans.

I actually google'd it (nah, I'm not bored at all! ) and looks like pretty much the whole world agrees on the Dutch being blunt and a little too direct, and many people find us plain rude

*click*

Talk about a rude awakening, hahaha!

[stefano_ita]

Thanks Brianlara, i appreciate your post

I think you understand my ideas, my goals, and so on, but maybe due my none experience in owning a boat, you, Lizze, all the others member of this forum, want to make me really aware of what boat's owning means, and cost.

That's make sense, for sure, or maybe, too much people, boat owner (all italian...)gave me some wrong or false idea about it, but i keep on reading and studying about it, from DIY works and so on...
I know that can help but not so much, untill you really have to spend your money, pratically, use your credit card for your boat, and not reading about quotes and job makde from other peoples.. ( like a car owning when someone want to share fuel with you...and then you think about tires, mot, taxes, mainteniance,ecc..it's not the 10 euro for a trip

P.s. No problem Lizzy for being direct, i appreciate it than italian that always say yes, it's great do it, then when you fail, everybody comfort you...

[brianlara 3]

Lizzie. Blunt should be spelled differently.
Here some new English for you...blunt equals honest, no crap...if you non-dutch people cant handle absolute and honest opinion then bugger off. (means...go away...sort of)
I luuurve the Dutch...bloody opinionated at times, yep, arrogant...but intelligence and honest straight talk equals Dutch....and you gotta love it. IMO..

[brianlara 3]

STEPHANO...YOU PLENTY GOOD FELLA.

[Sandero]

Stefano... There is a lot of wisdom on this board. They are telling that your expectations are unrealistic... I wouldn't dismiss them because you want to make this dream happen. Sure there are some great value / buys to be found. But then you have a lot of maintenance and upkeep and it's more than washing the deck.

Why don't you contact some live aboard charter skippers and pick their brains?

[boatpoker]

Lizzie, My wife and I love "blunt". Our son and his wife just moved to Utrecht where he teaches English and his Korean wife runs her online business. I have not been there but they have sent us lots of photos and it is an incredibly beautiful city. Which city are you moored in ?

[Lizzy Belle]

I'm in Rotterdam, near the Port of Rotterdam.
I moved here cos it's one of the few marina's where liveaboards are welcome and all services stay open all year 'round (like water, showers etc. etc.).

Utrecht is very much worth visiting, hope you get to do so one day! I don't know it too well, but the time I spent there I really enjoyed the city very much.

[stefano_ita]

@Brianlara

Better a honest rude than a false gentleman

LOL thanks for the fella

@ Yes Sandero, it's true, but well untill i will smash my face in the project it will be hard make my dream fail (i don't know if it's for my personal ignorance or an excess of self proudnees, both very harmful thinking way, i recognize it)

I've talked to my sailing teacher that charter in the summer and during winter use the boat for sailing lession, a 55 ft more or less, 10 berths, fast cruiser (225 square meters of sail for 22 tons of displacement)

He told me that just take the boat out of the water and get hull cleaned with pressure water, antifouling was like 30.000 euro...

I've checked to one of the most expensive marina in north adriatic and for that measure pull off the water, hull cleaning, pull back to water was about 3.000...I can't belive was 27.000 euro of antifouling...Let's say a pessimistic 10.000 euro paint and 5.000 work? There are 10 thousand are an excuse to result poor and be compassionated (yes, almost all the italian are like this, they don't wanto to show what they have or they like to show of...)

Italian forum: oceanis 393, all coppercoat, all done by boatyard, including tear away the old antifouling= 4200 euro (138 euro per square meter), another user, 40 ft, ONLY coppercoat, 800 euro, then did all by himself.

[Lizzy Belle]

The thing with asking people what it costs to do a certain job, is that you need to know where the number came from.

Lizzy Belle's hull was painted, and that was pretty cheap (I have the invoice, it was done before I bought her).
What the invoice doesn't say: they used the wrong paint and they painted w/out proper care, sanding and cleaning etc. first.

It looked great just after finishing the job - it didn't look so great by the time the season was over.
It's one of the main reasons I got her for next to nothing - 29' boats are hard to sell when in perfect shape, when the hull looks like cr*p, it becomes a lot harder still.

That "cheap" hull paint job was a very expensive one in the long run.
(But hooray for me: it's coming off all on its own now, so less work for me this spring )

What I'm trying to say: if you only have a number, some euro amount, it tells you nothing until you know exactly what was done, how it was done, where (and by whom) and what material was used.

But as I said: you're convinced everything can be done cheap - and you're right.
However ... a bad / cheap job means you'll get to do it again next season
2 x cheap is still expensive, and a lot more costly in time and frustration.

[stefano_ita]

Yes i get your message, i know where they get it,eccc and the DIY has 6 years old coppercoat, never take the boat out, and he's really satisfied, 2 layer gelcoat, plus 5 layer of coppercoat

Well italians, luckly (even the boater one, with seriously expensive boat) want the best, long lasting, while complaining about the price for everything...None can beat an italian's tight fisted-stingy boat owner...I'm quite joking but it's the sad true...

[Sandero]

Lizzy makes a very good point. Pricing is hardly regulated in the marine industry. And of course do it yourselfers never account for their time in the cost of a project they do.

A business has all manner of overheads which are included in the price of anything they sell you and the cost of doing business and how much profit they extract is variable. So prices for work vary all over the place.

And then there is quality. There is fast and cheap and the slower and correct and that will be costly. When you do projects yourself you will often need expensive tools... maybe a machine shop, perhaps staging and so on which are either costly of just not available. Rigging?

But in the end the live aboard skipper will be doing a lot of work... such as engine maintenance and plumbing systems maintenance.

Again... you need to hunt down a similar operation and find out their costs.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by stefano_ita

Well italians, luckly (even the boater one, with seriously expensive boat) want the best, long lasting,

If everything you posted about Italians in your topics is true, you could pretty much buy ANY boat sold by an Italian owner without any worries about her being in less then pristine condition

[stefano_ita]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

If everything you posted about Italians in your topics is true, you could pretty much buy ANY boat sold by an Italian owner without any worries about her being in less then pristine condition

You forgot the second part...Spending absolulty the least possible...

[stefano_ita]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Lizzy makes a very good point. Pricing is hardly regulated in the marine industry. And of course do it yourselfers never account for their time in the cost of a project they do.

A business has all manner of overheads which are included in the price of anything they sell you and the cost of doing business and how much profit they extract is variable. So prices for work vary all over the place.

And then there is quality. There is fast and cheap and the slower and correct and that will be costly. When you do projects yourself you will often need expensive tools... maybe a machine shop, perhaps staging and so on which are either costly of just not available. Rigging?

But in the end the live aboard skipper will be doing a lot of work... such as engine maintenance and plumbing systems maintenance.

Again... you need to hunt down a similar operation and find out their costs.

Rigging all made by progessional rigger

I all agree in what you said tho.

[brianlara 3]

STEPHANO, it would help people to help you, if you would describe to us the full extent of you practical skills.....no , not stock market etc.
But, how good are you at eg, a/c electrical, d/c electrical, pneumatics/hydraulics, engine or gearbox overhauls, rudder shaft bearing replacement,
tapping holes in h/t alumium.....many many jobs not listed, carpentry/Everduring.......so so much.
Brother, where do you stand in the APPROPRIATe skills line_up
Are you an Artist/painter...or are you a welder..a psychologist perhaps.?
If its ok with you then let the team know because your pragmatic talents are a v e r y big part of the whole project evaluation.
NO PRESSURE, only if you want to tell.
Matey, it concerned me when i initially read that you wanted a 50 footer (no steel or wood bottomless pits were criteria..sensibly) in Alloy of F/glass
Alarm bells! Thats why the troll hunters were sharpening their flints.
More info supplied will help produce a better level of advice.
Lizzy, Sandero et al are bloody smart and genuinely kind to boot....stick with this and you should have a satisfying result.
Your doin' good so far IMHO.
Arrievedierci, Bruno.