Looking for Fiberglass Boat with Similar Sailing Characteristics to Wooden Herreshoff

[jmalkire]

We have owned a 1946 herreshoff designed boat which sails like a dream. We want to move to a larger (41-47) fiberglass boat but are spoiled by the beautiful sailing characteristics of our boat. We sail in the Pacific Northwest. Any suggestions??

[minaret]

They are out there, but patience is required when looking for such a vessel. Here's one example I know well, she lives on my dock and I've known the owner/builder for many years. Been on the market for quite a while too, I bet the price could be whittled down even though it's already dropped a few times. The very traditional Herreshoff style interior is not for everyone, but it sounds like you may already be comfortable with that. She is a bit bigger than you mentioned, but there are more like her out there...


1980 Custom Herreshoff Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by minaret

They are out there, but patience is required when looking for such a vessel. Here's one example I know well, she lives on my dock and I've known the owner/builder for many years. Been on the market for quite a while too, I bet the price could be whittled down even though it's already dropped a few times. The very traditional Herreshoff style interior is not for everyone, but it sounds like you may already be comfortable with that. She is a bit bigger than you mentioned, but there are more like her out there...
1980 Custom Herreshoff Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Sweet ..!

[Curmudgeon]

Are you looking for another ketch? If so, I would suggest a Cherubini 44., which was modelled after Herreshoff's Ticonderoga.

Alternatively you can call French & Webb or Hinckley and ask them to build you a fiberglass Diddiaki. Of course neither one of these options is cheap, although there is a 1980 Cherubini 44 on yachtworld for $245k.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Are you looking for another ketch? If so, I would suggest a Cherubini 44., which was modelled after Herreshoff's Ticonderoga.

Alternatively you can call French & Webb or Hinckley and ask them to build you a fiberglass Diddiaki. Of course neither one of these options is cheap, although there is a 1980 Cherubini 44 on yachtworld for $245k.

The 51' ketch I just posted a link to is a scaled down Ticonderoga as well. It's probably much better built than a Cherubini, as it was built by a shipwright for his own use. He cruised and raised his family aboard. He's asking 175k, very reasonable.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by minaret

The 51' ketch I just posted a link to is a scaled down Ticonderoga as well. It's probably much better built than a Cherubini, as it was built by a shipwright for his own use. He cruised and raised his family aboard. He's asking 175k, very reasonable.

Have you ever set foot on a Cherubini 44? The build quality is every bit as good as Hinckley-- maybe even better. That's one reason they're so damned expensive.

You might find this review enlightening:
http://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboa...apsody-in-blue

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Have you ever set foot on a Cherubini 44? The build quality is every bit as good as Hinckley-- maybe even better. That's one reason they're so damned expensive.

You might find this review enlightening:
Cherubini 44 Mark II: Rhapsody in Blue | Cruising World

I have indeed. I have also ground into more than one Cherubini for repairs. They are very nice boats and well built. However, this boat was built by a well known shipwright for his own use. It has some features of construction you won't find in any production boat. The owner/builder made her extremely stout. Sometimes the fact that a boat was "home built" will detract from the market value because some feel it's not a known factor. That can be a winning situation for the buyer in some cases, and I think this is one of them. Witness the fact that they want substantially more for the smaller Cherubini, though I am sure it is also better equipped, as the Irene could be described as "traditional" or "dated" depending on your outlook.

[JDS61]

The Cape Dory design has some similarities to some L. Francis Herreshoff designs, cut-away forefoot, raked rudder post and similar entry and exit lines on turn of bilges, I think Carl Alberg was a draftsman for John Atkins in his younger days and picked up this underwater shape from him and incorporated it in his Alberg design. I had a Nat Herreshoff 32' yawl in my younger days and can appreciate your desire because she handled great. My 40' Cape Dory handles a lot like her, easily driven, fast, responsive, and easy on the eyes. I keep mine up by the border and am obviously biased. There is one in Guymas, Sea of Cortez,that I think is still on the market.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by minaret

The 51' ketch I just posted a link to is a scaled down Ticonderoga as well. It's probably much better built than a Cherubini, as it was built by a shipwright for his own use. He cruised and raised his family aboard. He's asking 175k, very reasonable.

I think the boat is very nice indeed, but can not compare it to a Cheribini...I was talking to Melissa at Cheribini recently and she told me about a boat that may soon be built ,It is a 65 ft Cheribini! I think that this may be the greatest sailboat built in the past 100 yrs. if its anything like the ones before it will be a thing of beauty...the first boat that I lived and sailed on was a cheribini 44 and it has been the inspiration for a life filled with a love and appreciation for art and the finer things built by man...It dosent get any better than a Cheribini...ever! IMO..DVC

[Nicholson58]

We have a 1984 Camper & Nicholson 58 ketch. They made a number of different styles and lengths.

Always do your diligence on older boats.

Here is a link to a Yahoo group for the commited. There is often information here about boats being sold or sought.
campernicholson : This list will be a contact point for owners and admirers of Camper Nicholson yachts.

[bobconnie]

All i know about the Irene, is I sailed along side her about 12 yrs back, with a 42 ft colvin with junk sails that was FAST. And she out pointed us and on a good reach even made many yards on us !! she sails faster then most of the boats Ive been around, and points higher then most any other boat Ive sailed around !! and she sure looked sweet with a bone in her teeth ! If I had the money I would have jumped on this one !! Just my 2 cents

[jmalkire]

we looked at Irene and it is nothing like a Herreshoff design. It is completely misrepresented. Way too beamy. One could argue it could have some resemblance to Mobjack but it is far from a Ticonderoga. it may be a fine boat but not for us. thanks anyway.

[minaret]

Boat Name
Irene

Specs
Builder: Custom Ketch

Dimensions
LOA: 51 ft 0 in
Beam: 13 ft 11 in
Maximum Draft: 5 ft 10 in

Tanks
Fresh Water Tanks: (360 Gallons)
Fuel Tanks: (144 Gallons)
Holding Tanks: (40 Gallons)






Not sure why you expect much less then 13' 11" in a 51' boat. She's moderately narrow, as anyone who looks at the pics in the previous link can see. My 52' LOD boat has 15'. Not uncommon.
While I certainly wouldn't describe her as "100%" or "ready to cruise" as the broker does in the listing, accusing a broker of misrepresenting in that fashion is silly, it's just to be expected from most brokers. But saying the design has been misrepresented is just wrong, the boat is a scaled-down Ticonderoga. Certainly she's not on a par with Legendary Yachts Herreshoff reproductions or anything like that, but for the price she's a lot of boat. But I guess we all have our opinions...

[jmalkire]

i don't understand your persistence. Do you have a vested interest in this boat? Ticonderoga is 72' LOD and 16' beam. Irene is more like 47' on deck with a 14' beam. Nowhere near the same proportions. Also Irene's shape is much to wide in the bow. Her sides do not slope at all like a Herreshoff design. Her bow is not narrow enough at the waterline with a gradual negative slope to the deck. Irene is much more bouyant in the bow than nearly all Herreshoff designs. I have sailed on an exact replica of Ticonderoga built by legendary yachts and I can say with complete confidence that Irene is a very different boat. Not to say she isn't a fine boat in herself, but to compare her to the Ticonderoga design is just plain wrong.