Living aboard a Sage 17

[newhaul]

Soon selling my bahama24 I lived on it full time on the hook for a year and 2 years with a marina as home base. Low head room but great in heavy weather ( morc boat)

[GIOVANNl]

I know this is off track, but does anyone have insight on refitting a small cruiser like a Dana 24. Those look like great little boats.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by GIOVANNl

I know this is off track, but does anyone have insight on refitting a small cruiser like a Dana 24. Those look like great little boats.

Depends on what you consider to be a refit, and what the condition of the boat is in the first place. A clean example will require minimal work, while a beat to death example may require a complete overhaul.

[GIOVANNl]

What would you do if most of the interior wood is discolored and soft? Sorry if my questions sound silly. I am clearly new to the sailing world.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by GIOVANNl

What would you do if most of the interior wood is discolored and soft? Sorry if my questions sound silly. I am clearly new to the sailing world.

If the interior wood is soft, like wet and rotten, you're getting into structural repair on most boats. The bulkheads generally maintain hull shape and support the rig. IMHO, walk away from such a boat, even if it's free.

[Clamdigger]

Ok, I have experience in smaller boats under 20ft that I have 'camp cruised' and 'lived aboard' at anchor, on moorings, and even spent time in marinas in between the 1970's- 2000 over years. I lived aboard my Montgomery 17 which is a Lyle Hess designed boat. I did not overload it, yet found I had enough volume to safely sail it 1,000's of miles down the Eastern Seaboard, over to the Bahamas, on to Jamaica, to the Panama Canal and back up the Eastern Seaboard. I left 75% of my crap in a storage locker for the duration. Never missed any of it! 'Stuff' owns YOU not the other way around!

It is similar to the Sage 17 in that both are Lapstrake fiberglass boats. The Sage 17's accommodations are smaller in volume than the Montgomery 17's. But the Sage 17 is built to the highest standards using the latest materials and techniques in the boating industry. The company's owners, Gail & Sal Glesser, are lifelong sailors themselves, and have worked hard at delivering satisfaction to each of their Sage buyers. Dave Scobie is not only an excellent sailor himself, but he himself has years of experience 'camp cruising' these size boats. The whole team at Sage Marine builds each boat as if it's their personal boat they are working on.

Unless any of you have personally stepped aboard one, or had the pleasure to sail one, I'd reserve judgement about Giovanni's choice of boat for his use. Sail on a Sage 17 with the usual gear load and experience the pleasure of sailing a well designed and finely crafted boat. Sage Marine has continually refined every single boat they have built since the company was founded, and they are truly innovative in this space. Sage Marine has taken the time to bring 1 or 2 of their boats to every Annapolis (October) Boatshow since their inception. I bet many here walked right past their display without going aboard to see for themselves what interested Giovanni. Go to Sage Marine's website and find out where they will be next on display and go take a look for yourselves.

One man's 'living aboard' is another man's 'camp cruising'. Suffice it to say that on the majority of sailboats under 20ft one is not living in the lap of luxury. To that I say, "that's what marinas are for".

Why do I need a boat with an 'dedicated' shower area when I can do it in my cockpit (offshore), or when paying for dockage I just use the marina shower. I can carry 20 gallons of water and use a SunShower just fine for the weekdays, and head in to a marina along the way on the weekends when everyone else is headed out to play. There are even better heads than composting = check out 'wag bags' used for climbing and folding toilet that stores under a smallboat's cockpit. Again, not necessitating the need for 'dedicated' head space, plumbing, waste tanks,etc. which is only used intermittently during a day. 'Kanaberra Gel' will handle mildew issues in lockers and inside the boat Giovanni.

I don't expect to have any of the 'big boat amenities' that are power hungry, so I don't need an 'extensive' battery bank, heavy wiring runs, or any manner of the rest of an 'electrical system' onboard. HUGE weight and space savings! I'll redirect those expenses towards my tow vehicle or storage room costs.

Bedding, clothing, et al, is easily contained within a few dry duffle bags which can double as cushions in the cabin. Going to work at a blue collar job was never an issue for me at least. Change in bathroom ashore and leave the boat clothes in the tow vehicle, which in my case was a 26ft motorhome, which also doubled as storage, conveniently located in the parking lot I might add LOL!

One must, by necessity, limit what personal possessions one brings aboard the boat. One can only read one book at a time, half a dozen small books were my 'entertainment' back then. Today an Amazon tablet and 'Bob's your uncle'! Amazing what can be stored on one of those!

A galley box with a butane stove, or something similar, some utensils and a few smaller pots and pans and you can eat like everyone else. Also, cooking and eating in one's cockpit is part of living aboard, and the M17 and Sage 17's have nice ones. I often had 3 guests eating and socializing in my cockpit and no one ever complained about comfort.Often times I got invited to larger boats whose owners admired my boat's cockpit volume. No wheel pedestal in the way and plenty of leg room in my old M17.

A bimini or even a complete enclosure for the cockpit is possible on these boats to deal with inclement weather. Makes a second cabin for 2 more guests to sleep aboard too!

There are certain items such as those that pertain to a boat's safe operation that are not deniable. Proper ground tackle including a modern anchor design, such as a Mantus anchor, is a priority, as it becomes your first line of defense whenever something endangers the vessel. A handheld VHF, local charts and Nav gear, operational running lights,and a high quality flood beam flashlight. All of these can be battery operated, just be sure you use them enough to know they are operational. The majority of storage needs to be at or below the LWL= Load Waterline Level. Once storage goes above this level it begins to affect the boat's 'CG' / Center of Gravity and it's ultimate stability, especially if weight of items is not properly secured before departure from anchorage, dock, or mooring. You also will find it frustrating to constantly be moving the same items multiple times a day, IF you bring too much aboard. It works itself out in short order or one gets a bigger boat that's that.

TP, I suspect Giovanni's first language is Italian, and so he naturally spelled Trieste from quick memory and typing.

I wonder if Giovanni just wants the experience of living aboard a boat he can day sail and enjoy, while not dealing with big(ger) boat ownership costs? Maybe he owns a small motorhome and intends to use that for all of his storage needs? I found it easy to move the motorhome and trailer, with or without the boat, when I felt like changing ports. The 'adventure' was in the sailing between the ports, and enjoying the fine art of sailing, engineless, aboard a boat that truly sailed well. Rediscover what you loved about sailing.....the sailing! I think some maybe missing Giovanni's point in that he is seeking simplicity in his lifestyle. Pickup a copy of 'Smallcraft Advisor Magazine' to read about the 'Mini Cruiser Genre' that I'm referring to that lots of older sailors find rewarding.

PS If you folks think a Sage 17 is small just take a look at the adventures Micro Cruiser sailors are heading off on aboard the Gig Harbor 12 ft Scamp (smallcraftadvisor.com)!! Again, it's all in the mindset of the sailor which boat satisfies their sailing budget and priorities.

[GIOVANNl]

Thank you for that post Clamdigger. That will definitely help me with my decision.

[john61ct]

Yes wonderful post.

Many people shun discomfort as if it's a virus, camping is not actually a slur if that lifestyle is your preference.

Voluntary simplicity isn't just about saving money.

[barnakiel]

Yellow?

Is it plywood?

If the varnish is gone, you restore it (sand, clean, varnish).

If the plywood is gone, replace it.

Mind it is a bad choice to restore interior and live in it all at once.

Cheers,
b.

[Clamdigger]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes wonderful post.

Many people shun discomfort as if it's a virus, camping is not actually a slur if that lifestyle is your preference.

Voluntary simplicity isn't just about saving money.

See? Now you get what I was saying John. Who's to say what size boat makes a sailor 'comfortable'? That's like saying all of those young people (and old) who are choosing to pay in full the cost of their 'tiny homes' so they can enjoy more leisure time are wrong. Actually, by reducing the largess of what they *choose* to live in, gives them more free time to pursue life to the fullest. It certainly wasn't *fullest* to me when I was in the yard doing maintenance on my Kalik 33, while seeing numerous boats under 25ft out sailing in the harbor on a perfect sailing day.

Having grown up camping, backpacking,sailing boats of all sizes, hiking, and traveling in RVs, nothing is an imposition to me if I am enjoying my free time.

The majority of my coastal sailing has been on the Atlantic Eastern Seaboard from Maine to Florida. Rarely have I been 'caught out' by weather I could not handle in the smaller boats under 25 ft that I was sailing, the majority of which I was single-handing. In fact in the event 'weather' came up I could easily duck inshore in places I would never risk bringing a larger, deeper draft vessel into. The most basic seamanship is to use prudence *before* any voyage irregardless of the size of vessel. This means paying attention to local weather, visually, local forecasts for the preceding and following days of your trip, and overall regional weather conditions. I have certainly been handed my a$$ on a few occasions and quickly learned what I did wrong so as to not repeat the sequence. YMMV

Camping out is relative to what one perceives as luxury. Would I rather arrive at a dock and still have pocket change to eat shore side, or have to choose between anchoring out and eating out? Simplicity comes in many forms in Life, we each choose our own paths.

Enjoy sailing whatever boat you can get on and don't waste a day. Before we know it our lives have begun and ended all too quickly....at least for those of us trying to get the most out of each day.

[Clamdigger]

Originally Posted by GIOVANNl

What would you do if most of the interior wood is discolored and soft? Sorry if my questions sound silly. I am clearly new to the sailing world.I know this is off track, but does anyone have insight on refitting a small cruiser like a Dana 24. Those look like great little boats.

First, I would suspect that the boat has gotten a significant amount of water into it somehow. It could have had hatches open during a thunderstorm that flooded the cabin sole and then soaked up the bulkhead bottoms into the panels, and been absorbed by the other interior wood if it's been oiled, not varnished. It could have had lots of showering going on in the head if that is the area you are inquiring about. IIRCC the Dana 24 you sit on the head to shower, thus the whole head gets soaked not just the person taking the shower. It could have been too tightly 'winterized' and condensation from water in the bilges could have caused the wood to absorb moisture and become 'soft'.

A relatively modern higher priced boat (for it's size) like a Dana 24 should have had proper care and no cosmetic issues as you are describing. If it does then it was suspect to mistreatment IMO, and not a 'proud owner'.

If you are going to go from a Sage 17 to a Dana 24, then you are still not sure of what you are intending to do with your new to you boat Giovanni. Because at that point you should just buy the Valiant PH42 that is for sale in Texas for $25,000 and refit that to your liking. Plenty of them have circumnavigated, it's a pilothouse which makes for decent longer term live aboard ability IME/O.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Clamdigger

Who's to say what size boat makes a sailor 'comfortable'?
...
Enjoy sailing whatever boat you can get on and don't waste a day. Before we know it our lives have begun and ended all too quickly....at least for those of us trying to get the most out of each day.

As someone who has owned and enjoyed a 19 ft boat for 10 years now, I'm totally onside with your message of 'sail now'. That's how we roll. We may never buy a larger boat, and I'll still die happy.

But... the OP started this thread by inquiring about "Living aboard a Sage 17".

Enjoying a weekend, or a week or a few weeks on a small boat is not the same as being a 'liveaboard', in the usual meaning of that word.

[GIOVANNl]

I just visited a Montgomery 17 yesterday. The cabin and cockpit seem plenty big to live aboard full time. Also, I checked out a Montgomery 15 and it was surprisingly a significant amount smaller. Thank you all for you comments. I will keep you posted on what happens.

-Giovanni

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by GIOVANNl

I just visited a Montgomery 17 yesterday. The cabin and cockpit seem plenty big to live aboard full time. Also, I checked out a Montgomery 15 and it was surprisingly a significant amount smaller. Thank you all for you comments. I will keep you posted on what happens.

-Giovanni

If you’re happy with that amount of room for living aboard full time, then more power to you. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea....I applaud your simplicity!

[Clamdigger]

I have found that operating a smaller sailboat under 25ft does not require systems. I ran plenty of AA and AAA devices which took the place of larger more expensive electronics and covered what I needed. I have been a satisfied customer of HamiltonFerris.com on all of my boats since 1978. One of their products I found especially applicable to use onboard my smaller boats is their 'Ferris Power Module Jr.' which is essentially a portable self contained electrical system in a cooler. It fits into out of the way spaces and can be pulled out when needed, which for me was mostly at night anchored.