Lack of choice in small keelboats.

[Drinky Crow]

Why do Europeans make all the cool boats?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHCOwG_myQo&t=42s

There's like a dozen reviews online of similar sized vessels being introduced in 'yurp.
What's their market got that we lack on this side of the pond?

[john61ct]

Disposable income, much higher average (actual) standard of living.

Same with the other more civilised nations of the earlier-developed ("first") world.

Not actively campaigning to drive all the middle classes' wealth into the hands of the 0.001% leaving all the rest of us struggling to save for a dignified old age, giving our kids a decent education, affording housing in those cities with good job markets, surviving a health care crisis etc

[HellBentSailing]

You make some good points, but it's mostly just mindset and geography. In Europe, sailing never really crashed in popularity like in North America, although it has reduced in popularity as things like wind and kite surfing grow larger. Europe also has large and diverse dinghy sailing populations who enter the keelboat market as they age. While dinghy sailing is still around in NA, it's not nearly as popular. In France, offshore is still pretty big as well. In addition, a lot of really good sailing lakes exist in Europe. Using Lake Garda as an example only because I've personally been there, their bodies of water are just better suited to it than ours with more favourable winds. In the 4 days I sailed on Garda, the Melges Europeans came and went, there was a windsurfing competition, and they were setting up for the 18ft skiffs. Not a single powerboat outside of the ferries was anywhere to be seen with the marinas being made up entirely of keelboats. In North America everyone just wants to push a lever and make noise, it's why they own huge lifted trucks and colossal SUVs to tow their absurdly painted ski boats around.

[Tillsbury]

Yes, I think that’s a fair amount of it. In Europe it just isn’t cool to have a big engine and make a lot of noise — in the uk particularly. In almost every aspect of life if you make a big noise you’re uncool and/or uncouth.

It’s a shame many of the good smaller boatbuilders from the uk went bust, or upmarket. Boat shows used to have heaps of 20-30 foot boats for sale to people with low budgets. Nowadays it’s all about the 50+ footers...

[psk125]

Powerboats in Europe are discouraged by fuel prices that are easily double what they are in the U.S.- and that’s before you add on the "waterside marina premium". Smaller keeled sailboats are cheaper to operate, fit in marinas that have limited room, and provide access to open space that is difficult to find in densely populated Europe. In France, sailing is promoted as a good physical activity that builds teamwork and social skills. During the school year, elementary schools send entire classes to week-long sessions at sailing camps where they learn about sails, navigation, astronomy, balance of forces, radios and machines (in other words, STEM) and go out in Optimist dinghies to apply what they know. Many get hooked on sailing.

[grahamj]

Seriously?
I'm back and forth across the pond but Europe doesn't even come close in the "Cool" stakes.
Alerion are off the planet.
S&S
J/Boats
BYS
C&C
There are others.

[tarian]

All fair points above, but remember Europe;s civilisation is so much older than the US , and sailing was and is an art form , the Scandinavian countries has a rich history of sea faring (vikings) the french, Portuguese the Spanish with their explorers and the UK which is an Island nation were no one is less than 100 miles from the coast
France and Spain having the Med and the Atlantic coasts ,Germany with the Baltic sea and access to the North sea and beyond sailing is in the history and the mind set of these nations and affordable boats were built in the 60s and 70s and 80s to the mass markets an have continued
holidays are better 6 weeks a year minimal and coastal sailing that is the envy of the World from the fjords of Norway and the baltic sea , to the Med , and the Atlantic giving a sailor a vast amount of diversity and other nations to visit

[TrentePieds]

You are sailing perilously close to the wind here. The OP's question can only be answered sensibly and usefully by taking reference to history, culture and POLITICS. Discussion of politics is NOT permitted in this forum, so let's not even start such a discussion.

As a Former Danish Person, and now a Canadian of some 60 years' standing, with sailing experience in both locales, I obviously have much to say in regard to this particular matter, but it cannot and will not be said here.

However, if the OP cares to send me a PM we can see how it might develop.

Once more: We moderators strive to keep this forum innocent of political discussions. Please help us to do that!

TrentePieds

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Drinky Crow

Why do Europeans make all the cool boats?

In North America, one of the biggest reasons that we don't see too many new small yachts is that there are still so many of the smaller yachts (25 ft and under) from the 70s and 80s still kicking around, and available for relatively cheap. And small used trailersailors like our Sandpiper are even cheaper.

For the price of a new European trailerable, we can get into a used but reliable 27+ ft yacht. The SQ25 is around 45000 euros base... how big of a used boat could you buy for that?

I believe that overall, sailing is more expensive to do in Europe, so a European is more likely to buy a good small, versatile sailboat.

[tarian]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

You are sailing perilously close to the wind here. The OP's question can only be answered sensibly and usefully by taking reference to history, culture and POLITICS. Discussion of politics is NOT permitted in this forum, so let's not even start such a discussion.

As a Former Danish Person, and now a Canadian of some 60 years' standing, with sailing experience in both locales, I obviously have much to say in regard to this particular matter, but it cannot and will not be said here.

However, if the OP cares to send me a PM we can see how it might develop.

Once more: We moderators strive to keep this forum innocent of political discussions. Please help us to do that!

TrentePieds

Could you please refer to what point your talking about so we as mere mortal understand your post
thankyou

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

You are sailing perilously close to the wind here. The OP's question can only be answered sensibly and usefully by taking reference to history, culture and POLITICS. Discussion of politics is NOT permitted in this forum, so let's not even start such a discussion.

As a Former Danish Person, and now a Canadian of some 60 years' standing, with sailing experience in both locales, I obviously have much to say in regard to this particular matter, but it cannot and will not be said here.

However, if the OP cares to send me a PM we can see how it might develop.

Once more: We moderators strive to keep this forum innocent of political discussions. Please help us to do that!

TrentePieds

Politics is also one of the 3 topics banned from the military officers mess.
Do you know what the other 2 are?

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[tarian]

Originally Posted by taxwizz

Politics is also one of the 3 topics banned from the military officers mess.
Do you know what the other 2 are?

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Ok please for the love of the wee man can someone point out the politics in any of these posts , now if I were to mention Brexit, Trump , Putin ,and Ghandi I would assume that is politics, but were talking about boats , or is my liberal sense of discussion been let down by something I have missed

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by tarian

Ok please for the love of the wee man can someone point out the politics in any of these posts , now if I were to mention Brexit, Trump , Putin ,and Ghandi I would assume that is politics, but were talking about boats , or is my liberal sense of discussion been let down by something I have missed

Post #2 has heavy political connotations. #7 less so.
Both are in relation to the original question which is cruising related and would be acceptable under the rules.

[tarian]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Post #2 has heavy political connotations. #7 less so.
Both are in relation to the original question which is cruising related and would be acceptable under the rules.

Thank you for the feedback , it seems someone got the wrong idea in regards to post 7 this is history and a factual representation of what has happened , As to holiday entitlement another fact across the EU in which all member states adhere to.
their was no political referencing , if history which is factual is not allowed then this seems a little OTT by the first Mod who has taken some offence.
OFC my opinion of the history but as we are taught many histories from around Europe at School level I believe that is a true representation of the seafaring nations and answering the OPs question in another light.
As it was these nations that breed men in sheds and designers of yachts to come up with simple but effective designs for owners with moderate incomes to be able to get out into the Sea ,
This was prevalent especially in the UK were small yards churned out small numbers of boats a year at affordable prices , but the industry has changes so much now that these yards have become obsolete as the big manufacturing bases of France and Germany took over boat building and now corner the market in cheaper boats (cheaper does not imply less quality )
And as said above people are looking for bigger boats which actually in manufacturing the profit margins are bigger for the company selling them.

[a64pilot]

It’s really not politics, nor is it the the average US person doesn’t have money. It’s also not heritage
Look at all the new SUV’s and PU trucks, and look at what the average house size is now, plus all the must have’s IPhones, data plans for everything phone, IPad, car etc. there is plenty of money.
It’s simply a matter of they don’t want to sail, for whatever reason. My belief is they consider it boring and they want right now, instant gratification, they don’t want to have to spend years learning anything.

Of course that’s not true for all, look at the “extreme” sports to see that, but I’d bet they total about 1% of the population.

I bought into that the reason that private flying was pretty much DOA now years ago believing it was due to cost, that people just couldn’t afford it.
Then I got a sailboat and started traveling around and seeing how many power boats there were, and watching them belly up to the fuel dock at a cost of thousands to fill up, and decided it wasn’t a lack of money why flying was dyeing.
I decided it was because all it took to own and operate that power boat was the ability to qualify for the loan, but flying took hours of school work, tests and practice, and who wants to do that?

Sailing is I believe in some ways a lot like flying, at least in that it takes a lot of work, requires just the right weather, and who wants to wait and do all that work? Hottest things with power boats is apparently joysticks that make docking easy, and now I think some may even autodock.