Ketch vs Sloop vs Cutter

[Tim Mertinooke]

Ketch for me!

[MidLandOne]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

There is a reason all the Americas Cup boats have been sloop rigged in the past.

There is another reason that all America's Cup boats have been sloops or single mast rigged because as far as I know at least the J Class (Universal Rule), 12 metre and IACC rules have required them to be sloops or single masted .

But that mentioned purely as a friendly tease because I certainly agree with your

Originally Posted by Pelagic

It is the most efficient sail configuration in a variety of winds when ease of handling is not a concern

[Stillraining]

Originally Posted by bob perry

I think you need to take a long look at the rig proprtions of that Farr ketch. It is far (ha) from being a typical ketch. In fact it's more like a small sloop chasing a big sloop. I suspect the choice of ketch rig was all about the ability to fly flying sails off the mizzen. This rig needs to be evaluated within the rating rule that the boat designed to conform to. Just like the yawls of the CCA era.

Well if your going to get picky then here..

[Sailormann]

For long-term cruising the schoooner takes it hands down. While there are more sails and lines to deal with, the flexibility of the rig and the smaller sails make it easier to handle and far easier to trim through heavy weather.

For weekend marina-hopping on the Great Lakes, the sloop is it. Far better to windward, quicker to rig and less work.

[Ozz]

Hi All

I'm new to the forum and to sailing in general, so pardon my ignorance / enthusiasm.

I found this thread and have been through it with great interest. With my limited knowledge many of the opinions posted make a lot of sense and I think the conclusion is down to personal preference and whether the rig is suitable for the hull shape / design.

Just to add another twist to it...

A yacht sailed into my home port a few weeks again which perked my interest. I was unable to get much info about it apart from speculations from the local sailors. From what I was told it is a junk rigged ketch or junk rigged freedom with a canting keel. The two masts are of equal height and size with the fore about a foot or two from the bow and the mizzen a little behind midship. Unfortunately I didn't get to have a good look at it myself so can't really offer much more detail.

While chatting to a few of the local chaps their opinions were freely expressed and in most cases pretty negative, however there were a few interesting points raised.

The first was that the masts are unstayed and both sails were self-tacking. Also I believe the sales are flat (battened being a junk) and near square. The advantage there being cheaper sails and better wearing.

I'm looking at this from a cruising point of view and not a racing one. Searching on the internet returns very little about the freedom rigs and even less regarding junk rigged ones. I understand though that ketches and therefore freedoms don't go as close to the wind and are slower windward than a sloop / cutter.

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of this type of yacht?

Thanks
Oz

[READY2GO]

You may have been looking at a Cat Ketch. They are very easy to sail. As you said self tacking. My brother has one and swears by it. They don't sail as close to the wind, but fly on a dead run. All other points of sail, about the same as a sloop. I will warn you, discussing sail plans is like discussing anchors or guns.

[boatman61]

Do you mean this ... a Schooner Junk Rig

[Ozz]

Hi ready2go

Thanks for the reply. I did a few searches and think you're probably spot on with it being a cat ketch. Here's an image I found which resembles what I'm taking about, Google Image Result for http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/Designs/G45_RHINO_RENDER_06.jpg

Boatman61

Thanks for the reply. The sails aren't quite as junk shaped as the image you posted. So I beg the question, simply comparing the two images, What is the difference between a cat ketch and schooner junk rig?

Thanks for the replies.

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by Ozz

Hi ready2go

Thanks for the reply. The sails aren't quite as junk shaped as the image you posted. So I beg the question, simply comparing the two images, What is the difference between a cat ketch and schooner junk rig?

One obvious difference is the junks luff is forward of the mast. The junk also is fully battened and the battens are quite heavy. A ketch has a shorter mast aft and a schooner's is taller or equal to the main and a schooner could have more then one mast. A cat boat would usually have its mast well forward so I suppose this might be true of a cat ketch.

[daveydimwith]

I have a Northsea 34 which is a knockoff of a Covic Victor 34. It was made in about 1980 in British Columbia as a sloop while most of the Victor 34s were rigged as ketches.
My boat has never had a mast.
It will get one (or 2) this spring.
I am undecided to rig the boat as a ketch or sloop. Money is not a consideration as I can buy the ketch rig and a decent set of sales for almost nothing. I do have the correct sloop mast.
I have a fair amount of blue water experience all on a sloop. My reason for considering rigging the boat as a ketch is that this is how the boat was designed and built originally.
My partner and I are in our (fit) late 60s and ease of effort is a consideration.
Feedback please????

[READY2GO]

humingway is correct. The main on a cat ketch is right on the bow, and the mezzin is amidship and shorter than the main. One advantage to the cat ketch is most all of them use unstayed masts with spirits rather than booms, so the sails can be let out to 90 degrees or even further for running down wind. On dead down wind my brother can pull away from my sloop (unless I get out the spinniker).

[Ozz]

Hi Davey

Like I mentioned in a previous post, I'm pretty new. But what info and opinions I've so far managed to glean is that Sloops are more popular and sail closer to the wind. Ketches are easier to sail in the sense they are self tacking, one can near enough steer the yacht with the sails, sail area is similar to the sloop however spread across two masts. Unstayed masts allow a certain amount of flex allowing the sails to depower in a sudden gust. Unstayed is generally cheaper.

Anyone one else?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Ozz

Hi Davey



Anyone one else?

Well, if it is for the OP

But as a general rule which rig does better in light air? If you used the same hull with the three different rigs, which one would be better ( by better I mean not setting still baking in the sun)? Lets say there is a 5 knot breeze and you are on a beam to broad reach.

Might still be the sloop.

[Unicorn Dreams]

Not all winners were sloops, back in the old days when they used yachts and not toy boats

[capnorv]

Earlier you said you want to be able to sail slip to slip, and make good way in 5kt wind. I used to love sailing in and out of my slip on my tall/deep Newport 27, need a fin keel sloop, possibly a cutter to do that. My last 2 boats would be at the other end of the fairway before deciding to make way, fact of their design. That said, I enjoy nothing more than light air sailing standing above the helm leaning against the mizzen foot steering and enjoying the views, and they both make way from their moorings. I like the rig versatility of the ketch, and the indestructability of my cutter, but light winds a good sloop will perform.