Ketch sailors tips

[Moody Mike]

Hi Everyone,
I have just bought a ketch a Carbineer 46 well actually its a Carberneer 46 built in Australia . Im currently doing all the work one needs to do on a new secondhand boat. Including fitting new sails etc. i have asked the sailmaker to make me a mizzen staysail or mizzen spinaker sail is what it really is .
I have read that these sails perform very well so im keen to see how it goes. My previous boat was a sloop so I have a bit to learn about Ketch's . I welcome any sailing tips & comments aimed at getting the best out of a ketch along with any other tips from experienced Ketch sailors.
Mike

[exMaggieDrum]

Our ketch came with a mizzen staysail but we never rigged her up. If I remember correctly (dubious) I think the sheet was to be led to the aft end of the mizzen boom. This article says that this one skipper rigged his that way so may be I remember correctly.

mizzen-staysail

We do have a picture of our boat from the PO with her mizzen staysail and spinnaker up. Beautiful!!

[Snowpetrel]

I often tack a mizzen staysail to the windward shrouds . This opens the slot, but can cause the luff to foul on the backstay, depending on the luff sag. Fit some antichafe to the luff, where it crosses the backstay.

Definitely worth sheeting the mizen. Staysail of the mizzen. Boom if possible, so a higher cut clew is good. Certainly a usefully sail in light airs. A good rig is just a drifter or mps and the miz staysail.

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[Moody Mike]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

I often tack a mizzen staysail to the windward shrouds . This opens the slot, but can cause the luff to foul on the backstay, depending on the luff sag. Fit some antichafe to the luff, where it crosses the backstay.

Definitely worth sheeting the mizen. Staysail of the mizzen. Boom if possible, so a higher cut clew is good. Certainly a usefully sail in light airs. A good rig is just a drifter or mps and the miz staysail.

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My sailmaker wasn't keen on sheeting to the mizzen boom ( don't know why) although all the photos i found on the net show this is the most common method. He wants to sheet to a very large mooring post on the deck. So your saying to sheet to the mizzen we have to cut the sail differently to the drawing.
Mike

[Snowpetrel]

Weird that the sail maker deosnt want to sheet it off the boom, though for close reaching its better steeted to the deck. Ideally it can be sheeted to both. I also not he has drawn it tacked to the centerline which isn't normal either. Normally they run pretty low halyard tensions with lots of luff sag. Just make sure the mast is up to a tight luffed sail if that's the way you're going.

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[Moody Mike]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Weird that the sail maker deosnt want to sheet it off the boom, though for close reaching its better steeted to the deck. Ideally it can be sheeted to both. I also not he has drawn it tacked to the centerline which isn't normal either. Normally they run pretty low halyard tensions with lots of luff sag. Just make sure the mast is up to a tight luffed sail if that's the way you're going.

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I have sent him an email asking a few questions .
Mike

[Snowpetrel]

something like this is what I've normally done, but for reaching a more efficient shape might be faster.

[Moody Mike]

This what i had in mind, similar sized boat & rig .

[Moody Mike]

I like this thats a lot of sail lol

[Snowpetrel]

Now we are talking.. better ask your sailmaker if he can make you a blooper as well!

[keithw88]

Mike, how did you get on with the mizzen stays’l? What construction and cloth did you chose (if you went ahead with one)? I like mine, a lot; I sheet it to the quarter as I have a clumsy Bimini which makes sheeting to the mizzen boom a pain. I do tack it to the windward shroud chainplate. It is a really old nylon symmetrical spinnaker from way back and I wonder if one cut properly for the job would be better. Despite its age, it adds at least half a knot and possible 1.5.
I also have an asymmetric on a furler for the mainmast, and have used both together, but that needs an energetic crew; the asym is the more powerful but a lot more hassle.
Keith

[Moody Mike]

Hi Keith
I have 2 staysails one is like a mini spinaker & for running downwind , this one came with the boat & is the same weight as my asymmetric spinnaker & probably made at the same time with off cuts. The other I had made & works on a reach its a bit heavier but much lighter than my in mast furling mizzen. So i use it in lighter winds with the mizzen rolled up. I tack them both through a spare car on my headsail sheet track then to a cleat. The clew on both run through a block at the of the mizzen boom then along the boom to a winch on the mast.
They both work extremely well & add 1.5 knots . You should be able to see from the pic how it works. I also have a bimini but it doesn't get in the way as the tack is forward of it.
Mike

[Hudson Force]

I tried several different plans, but found sheeting to the aft center deck worked best for my relatively large mizzen stay sail. My favorite specialized use of the mizzen stay sail was flying it paired with just my genoa when working into a tight area. The benefit of this pair while gunkholing is the choice to douse the sails without coming into the wind.

[keithw88]

Not directly related to mizzen stays’ls, but otherwise to the title of this thread:
Should I contemplate getting a wind vane?
“Equilibre” displaces maybe 24 tons in cruising trim. I have two of all sorts of things but just one rudder, and am required to state (and maybe to demonstrate) how I would steer the boat if my steering system failed (not how I would cope with a rudder jammed hard over, which would be a problem of a higher order).
I will be sailing from NZ to Vanuatu, New Caledonia, etc and then back. The long legs are 1200 nm plus, and no land much nearer than the departure or destination points.
So far, I have used my hydraulic autopilot most of the time at sea, so I can’t say whether I can get the boat to steer herself on every point of sailing. However, with two furling fores’ls and a reefable mizzen I should be able to do so, at least on a close/fetch.
Only one or two wind vanes are powerful enough for my boat, it seems; but the claims for these sound believable.
Apart from the need for emergency secondary steering, I have loved having wind vane steering in the past (Monitors). The eee-aaaw noise of the reversing motor on any large autopilot is annoying, and its consumption of electrons mounts up.
So should I rig up transom mounts for an emergency rudder (and get one made up) and commit to hand-steering home if necessary, or should I spend out on a wind vane which can double as an emergency rudder?
Costs are always a consideration - I reckon 1000 currency units for the mountings / fitting of either; say 2000 for an emergency rudder and 8000 for a powerful wind vane which can do both jobs-. Significant differences but not conclusive.
Any thoughts, ketchies?
Keith

[SV Windrush II]

Originally Posted by Moody Mike

This what i had in mind, similar sized boat & rig .

What I have trouble with is the mizzen sails blocking the wind for the main. At the perfect angle with little swell roll, I can get it to work, but that happens about 5% of the time while sailing offshore. Picture make it look beautiful, but in the real world it is very difficult to sustain it