Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-05-2019, 00:06   #16
Registered User
 
Moody Mike's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Boat: Laurent Giles designed Carbineer 46
Posts: 231
Re: Ketch sailors tips

I couldn't fit a vane on Katrina III as my boom goes past my stern & I have a swim ladder & davits . If you ever damage your steering your Moody should have an emergency tiller that attaches to the rudder through the cockpit floor. If you ever lose your steering at a critical time like crossing a bar you can steer with your bow thruster well enough to keep out of trouble. If you were to lose your rudder completely then a spinnaker pole & a hatch cover or similar lashed together & pivoting of a staunching etc can be used to steer like a ancient galley . Many years ago I watched a small vessel 36 ft sail past Cairns Cruising Yacht Squadron ( the old club house) it had been rolled over a reef in a cyclone holed , dismasted & without a rudder . We stood an saluted the crew who were steering with that rudder set up.
Moody Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2019, 02:34   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Now NZ after Med, Middle East, SE Asia, UK
Boat: Moody Carbineer 52
Posts: 148
Re: Ketch sailors tips

Fair points, Mike.
Havenít yet had the full NZ Cat 1 inspection, so am not sure what scenarios really need to be prepared for. I had thought it would be the loss of the rudder (as in it being knocked off or the shaft breaking). I was thinking just of that. I do have an emergency tiller, but that would not be any use in the lost rudder scenario. Your idea of using the bowthruster had not occurred to me - even though thatís how I steer whenever I go astern. (I do have blanking plates for each end of the tunnel, which are designed to reduce drag for long voyages, but they make the bowthruster unusable - so I might leave them uninstalled given your point!)
With a mizzen and davits it is more difficult to fit a windvane, but I donít have the dinghy on the davits on longer trips, so I think a vane is possible. My questions lie more around a) should I be able to steer the boat on a reasonably steady course under all conditions short of needing to lie ahull/to a sea-anchor without a working rudder? and if not, b) would a windvane have enough power to control a boat like mine?
keithw88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2019, 02:58   #18
Registered User
 
Moody Mike's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Boat: Laurent Giles designed Carbineer 46
Posts: 231
Re: Ketch sailors tips

Hi Windrush
I have 2 different staysails one for down wind pictured in post above & one for reaching. The downwind rig runs beside the main when conditions are suitable but often I just run the mizzen staysail & asymmetric spinnaker with the main furled inside the mast . This is an easy rig to use if I want more power I can run my headsail poled out opposite my asymmetric spinnaker & let my mizzen staysail fly out to the side .
I never stop experimenting & have found you the main sail is often best left furled .
Mike
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	D0747225-6065-478F-A3CA-217934434198.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	184.5 KB
ID:	192310   Click image for larger version

Name:	C1AC6A1A-811A-42C1-8ADD-E62D0E7F6229.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	90.8 KB
ID:	192311  

Click image for larger version

Name:	3C6B7123-43A9-4277-9E13-32DF18EE7C6D.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	126.5 KB
ID:	192312  
Moody Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2019, 03:01   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Now NZ after Med, Middle East, SE Asia, UK
Boat: Moody Carbineer 52
Posts: 148
Re: Ketch sailors tips

Interesting point about the mizzen blanking the main. For whatever reason, I donít experience that. Maybe because I have in-boom furling on my main, which makes my boom heavier than normal (even though itís carbon), so it doesnít crash around and the sail keeps drawing - or seems to do. Maybe itís because there is enough separation between the masts, maybe because my mizzen is small relative to the main. Or maybe because I rarely sail dead downwind, as I am conservative worrying about accidental gybes and prefer to heat up a bit and switch from gybe to gybe.
Am interested in other peopleís views on this.
keithw88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2019, 03:05   #20
Registered User
 
Moody Mike's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Boat: Laurent Giles designed Carbineer 46
Posts: 231
Re: Ketch sailors tips

I lost my rudder on Red Sky our Moody 54 it was ripped off by a NSW Government wave recorder Buoy that dragged 20 k off position . Although we were taking on lots of water & had no rudder I was able to steer towards the rescue ship oil tanker British Loyalty using the bow thruster. So I have a bit of first hand experience . I would never block my bow thruster tunnel it wont make any difference to speed.
Moody Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2019, 03:32   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Now NZ after Med, Middle East, SE Asia, UK
Boat: Moody Carbineer 52
Posts: 148
Re: Ketch sailors tips

Glad you made it!
Iíll look further into your point about the drag the tunnel creates; there should be some scientific info on the topic.
keithw88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2019, 03:43   #22
Registered User
 
SV Windrush II's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Somewhere in the Philippines
Boat: Mariner 40 Ketch
Posts: 527
Images: 18
Re: Ketch sailors tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody Mike View Post
Hi Windrush
I have 2 different staysails one for down wind pictured in post above & one for reaching. The downwind rig runs beside the main when conditions are suitable but often I just run the mizzen staysail & asymmetric spinnaker with the main furled inside the mast . This is an easy rig to use if I want more power I can run my headsail poled out opposite my asymmetric spinnaker & let my mizzen staysail fly out to the side .
I never stop experimenting & have found you the main sail is often best left furled .
Mike
Thanks, I think I need to try some setups like you have and see if that works for me. I also need to get a asymmetrical spinnaker which I dont have, or maybe just pole out my genoa
__________________
Fair Winds to all
SV Windrush II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2019, 08:14   #23
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anacortes
Boat: previous - Whitby 42 new - Goldenwave 44
Posts: 1,836
Re: Ketch sailors tips

We sailed our Whitby 42 ketch from the US to Mexico and then on to NZ. Fortunately we didn't have to comply (at that time at least) with the rigorous regulations and required equipment which NZ and Oz require.


We had a Monitor windvane and it was great. We had to use the shorter version of the vane because of the interference with the mizzen boom. All windvanes require the proper trim of the boat/sails since none of them can push against a boat which is working against them. I am sure the Hydrovane and Monitor would work well for you.



As far as qualifying as a second steering system that would depend on the exact wording and enforcement of NZ. The Monitor goes through your existing steering system so is not really independent of it. I am not familiar with Moody's and what type of steering they have. We had hydraulic on our boat. We also had a electric pump/hydraulic autopilot below deck. A Monitor would not give you any more independence from a steering failure than an autopilot. However, a Hydrovane would certainly. I was going to put one on my current boat but have to sell now.


An emergency tiller might by itself be all you need to qualify as a separate steering system. It would be more independent from your hydraulic system but you would have to have a way to allow the rudder to move and not fight a closed hydraulic system. This would be a good thing to have on your boat in any case.


If the regulations require the instance of losing your ship's rudder, then you will have to do far more than is usually possible than most boats. The Monitor requires lines going from the stern up to your helm wheel and that is a major consideration and negative. It would not be an emergency rudder if you lost hydraulics or chain/cable linkages.



I would certainly look into a Hydrovane if you want the luxury of a wind vane. I almost consider them essential kit on a cruising boat. They are quiet and don't use any power. Hydrovane has a lot of experience with all different types of rigs and they have been put on many ketches. They are very, very easy to work with. I actually bought one to put on my current boat and would if I were keeping the boat. You can steer the boat by hand using their independent rudder. The regular one is small and would have difficulty in bad seas and winds but they also have a separate emergency rudder kit that can be added. I did a lot of research on wind vanes and it would be the only one I would consider in the future. But other sailors have been very happy with Monitors and others.


But it seems the biggest issue is what, exactly, the regulations require.
exMaggieDrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ketch, sail

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
To Ketch or Not to Ketch gpshephe Monohull Sailboats 62 19-05-2019 06:28
Formosa ketch 68 or Irwin 68 ketch videorov Monohull Sailboats 1 21-05-2012 12:50

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:41.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.