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12-09-2014, 16:31
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 7
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Ketch pro & cons
Hi,
New here, just learning. Would like help learning about a ketch. Am looking at a 38ft ketch and would like to know the pros & cons of this as opposed to a single mast.
Thank You
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12-09-2014, 16:54
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 201
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
I've never been on a Ketch, but I understand that having two smaller sails makes sail-handling (especially short-handed I'd imagine) easier. I'm sure there's lots of other pros/cons others will chime in with -
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12-09-2014, 18:10
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Grampian 26, Mercury 15, Formosa 41
Posts: 274
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
Sailed both ketch and sloop. Depends on the boat and sailor. My generic reply without knowing more about the particular boat at hand or your sailing ambitions: More possible sail configurations, easier to balance, doesn't typically point as well, possibly more of a handful if you're sailing solo as there are more lines to manage. Depends on your set up really.
Sent from my C5215 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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12-09-2014, 18:20
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#4
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 8,492
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
I had sloops from 1962 to 1985 and a ketch from 1985 to present. Here's my thought:
-Advantage of the sloop:
Better sailing performance
Simplicity of rigging
-Advantage of the Ketch:
Lower required vertical clearance
More sail configurations
...and then the meaningless thought,- the ketch sure is pretty!
.... oh, yes. 'more places to string a hammock on a ketch!
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
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12-09-2014, 18:39
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Boat: Alden auxiliary ketch 48'
Posts: 950
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
Think about a heavy weather situation. Drop the main and you still have a balanced rig without reefing.
The cons? 2 masts mean just that. 2 spars need their own rigging. You should not have the 2 masts linked in any way - it makes both masts vulnerable in the event you lose one. More sails (which is also a pro - more sail options).
Your overall rig is shorter so your mainsail is a bit smaller and easier to handle. You won't be able to point as well as a sloop but that isn't much of an issue. The only folks who really need to point are racing and they wouldn't have a ketch rig anyway. You can hang your radar and wind gen from the mizzen with shorter runs on wiring.
Makes solar panel placement more challenging.
It just looks so darn pretty.
__________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
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12-09-2014, 19:25
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#6
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,103
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
+ mizzenmast can be good location for radar radome mounting
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12-09-2014, 19:42
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nicholasville, Kentucky
Boat: 15 foot Canoe
Posts: 14,191
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
Can't say much more. I've owned both. Ketch was prettier and rigging a mizzen staysail was a whole lot of fun. Lots more maintenance though. You have two of everything when it comes to standing and running rigging.
__________________
John
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12-09-2014, 19:51
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Boat: Beneteau First 375
Posts: 461
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy
You won't be able to point as well as a sloop but that isn't much of an issue. The only folks who really need to point are racing
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I really don't get this. Does this mean that if you have to go to windward, you just start the motor? Or you that don't care how long it takes? Personally, I find windward performance to be pretty important, racing or not.
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12-09-2014, 20:02
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Grampian 26, Mercury 15, Formosa 41
Posts: 274
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
Doesn't point as high, meaning it'll take a few more tacks to get upwind. How many more and how much longer it'll take depends on the boat and the sailor. If you're in a hurry to get anywhere sailing usually isn't the way to go anyway.
Sent from my C5215 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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12-09-2014, 20:34
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#10
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,103
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
It is hard to be with a kvetch, but I love the looks of a ketch.
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12-09-2014, 20:40
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Malaysia
Boat: Bruce Roberts 36' ketch
Posts: 20
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
For what it is worth, I have sailed a Bruce Roberts 36' steel ketch on my own, for the past 12 years in Queensland and south east Asia and found the configuration easy to handle in all conditions except winds above 50 knots, when it blows hard you just reduce sail by taking the main down and use a number 2 jib. It is, in my opinion the best configuration for single handing or small crews
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12-09-2014, 21:34
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Boat: Alden auxiliary ketch 48'
Posts: 950
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
Sandy stone, going upwind is something cruisers will avoid when making long passages. Beating into the wind in a race is one thing. Doing it for a month is another. If you have to, you do it. Most long passages take advantage of trade winds and go "downhill". You lose a few points of wind in a ketch - still quite possible but not as efficient.
__________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
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12-09-2014, 21:57
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, California - Read about our circumnavigation at www.rutea.com
Boat: Contest 48
Posts: 1,060
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
We've owned our ketch for 18 years now and have sailed her almost 50,000 miles. In truth, we actually don't fly our mizzen very often but its benefits justify its existence.
Our boat balances extremely well. On a beam reach, I can let go of the helm and the boat will stay within 10 degrees of her course for up to 10 minutes. This makes for very little work on the autopilot's part.
Also, we heave to by hoisting the mizzen, sheeting it in tight and lashing the helm hard over. The boat will park itself about 15 degrees off the wind, which is almost ideal.
The increase in maintenance has not been a major issue for us. We did re-rig when we were in New Zealand and it was more expensive than it should have been but that's an issue with New Zealand and not the rig.
Our previous boat was a sloop and though we had not been looking specifically for a ketch, but when we found our current boat, my wife and I both agreed that it was the ideal boat for us.
Fair winds and calm seas.
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13-09-2014, 00:50
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#14
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 8,492
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy stone
I really don't get this. Does this mean that if you have to go to windward, you just start the motor? Or you that don't care how long it takes? Personally, I find windward performance to be pretty important, racing or not.
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Sloops, cutters, ketches... all sail to windward. Some characteristics like shroud placement alter sheeting angles and keel shape affects windward performance as well as sail aspect ratio and the length of the leading edge. Ketches typically will sail a few degrees less to windward. Some, like mine, with a less than maximun height, outter chain plates, and a looser leading edge on a "Schaeffer rig" furler secondary to the forestay give up even more windward performance, but I can still manage a little better than 45* off the wind in good conditions.
So, No,- you do not need to run your engine to make way to windward in a ketch, but you will not make as good time.
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
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13-09-2014, 02:37
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#15
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, in Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 29,750
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Re: Ketch pro & cons
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy
Sandy stone, going upwind is something cruisers will avoid when making long passages. Beating into the wind in a race is one thing. Doing it for a month is another. If you have to, you do it. Most long passages take advantage of trade winds and go "downhill". You lose a few points of wind in a ketch - still quite possible but not as efficient.
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Of course, off the wind sailing is more pleasant. But this is not to say cruisers do not sail to windwards. Whilst at Bora Bora, we met the Australian vessel, New Morning, with Mom & Pop and 2 kids aboard. They had sailed from Queensland to Papeete, which is a long upwind journey. Jim and I sailed from Bora Bora to San Francisco via Hawaii, also an on the wind journey. What happens is that if where you want to go is to windward, you go there, and if you can't tack in under 110 degrees, it's going to take you a loooooong time to get there! So, the first point is that sometimes, for whatever reasons, cruisers do in fact choose to sail to windward.
Second point, passage planning has entirely to do with where an individual wants to go May or may not be an easy passage or a "long downwind passage". If you choose to buy a boat without or with poor windward performance capability, you limit your options.
Ann
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Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
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