Kayak vs. Dinghy

[Ungvar]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

So let's say you are going ashore for a dinner party. you're in a Spanish language country so you expect to start around 9pm, and possibly not get back until 3 am. You are wearing your favourite shirt, and some decent jeans/trousers. Do you really slip yourself into a kayak and paddle to shore?

In the med this scenario would be very common, eat late, party a little, come back to the boat, perhaps even with a lady friend.

Since you are coming up with hypotheticals to prove only your point of view is corect.

So lets say the carb on your POS outboard gums up half way to your dinner party and you have to paddle any way.

But that would never happen right?

I am not saying it is the best choice for every one.

But for those of us who prefer wind/human power to internal combustion engines for health/aesthetic or environmental reasons, they are a perfectly reasonable choice. If you prefer a motor boat for a tender, by all means, buy a motorboat.

[thomm225]

It also helps if you have some experience with kayaks.

I had mine two years before I bought the sailboat that I use it on.

Longest trip was 5 miles out into the bay/ocean and back on a very hot day in 2009 which was an excellent workout

The hardest part was getting back into the inlet against a strong outgoing tide.

I came in directly behind a bridge piling to help slow the current a bit at the worst point then around and paddled hard to shallow water and decreased current but away from the fishermen on the bank

[Ungvar]

For folks who want bigger kayaks that can carry the occasional freind or date back to the mothership, those are out there. I am using high end kayaks as examples, but you can get a pretty decent used single cockpit tandem kayak for about $500 or similar new rigid sit inside tandem for about $1000. Quality folding boats are more expensive, some of them much more expensive. But some of those have done some pretty nice voyages including transats, Med crossings etc.

Some tandems have seats on rails so you can trim them out for solo or tandem use and a sail rig so you don't even have to paddle. Due to kayaks easily driven hulls and light weight they can exceed hull speed under sail without too much trouble. Sailing speeds approaching 6 knots are not difficult to hit. The bigger tandems can seat more than 2.

There is a lot more out there than the cheap box store kayaks many seem to be thinking of when they think kayak.

Here are some nice tandems doing their thing

https://youtu.be/0FfDp57yO64

https://youtu.be/_XdtdeJkHLo

[thomm225]

and don't forget there was a doctor that paddled and sailed a Klepper Kayak across the Atlantic in the 50's.

https://www.klepperamerica.com/about/

And then there's Feathercraft folding kayaks:

http://feathercraft.com/kayaks/k1-expedition/#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMfreIBT_KA

[Ungvar]

And British and Commonwealth Special Forces used Folbots for coastal night raids during world war 2, I assume in part due to the outboards being even noisier and less reliable then than they are now.

There is still a demand for folding kayaks for special forces.


http://www.hisutton.com/USASOC%20folding%20Kayaks.html

[sparrowhawk1]

A simple to make step that could easily be made bigger for a platform to sit down on for boarding a kayak. The lines make an x on the underside.

[Rob S.]

Originally Posted by Jammer

A SUP would be my very last choice for dealing with any sort of problem situation such as rowing out a kedge or getting a drunk/ill/overtired person to or from shore at night, when it's cold, in light chop and a breeze.

Yaks, entry and exit is a problem, you will get wet, not stable enough to be a good choice as a work platform of any kind, most do not have enough capacity for two people and a load of groceries



Canoes, of olden time these had much greater variety of construction and there were versions with more freeboard that would be highly suitable. This example would be too large:



Freighter Canoe, traditional 22' - Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum


But intermediate sizes have been made and to some extent still are. Square stern canoes in 16' are still readily available new and used, usually in aluminum, and would be about right. These take a 3hp motor and carry 3 big guys or 2 and a load of groceries. Due to their length, they will not fit on deck.



If you're going to have a hard dink, you are better off with a Trinka or Fatty Knees or Portland Pudgy than a 'yak or canoe, because they have more freeboard, more capacity for the same empty weight, are shorter so they will fit on deck, can accept a motor, have an integral rub rail for the inevitable bump and grind, are stable enough to use as a work platform, etc etc etc. If you're going to have a deflatable then you are better off with the customary configurations everyone uses (Avon, AB, etc) as these are seaworthy, have more capacity, are shorter so they will fit on deck, can accept a motor, are stable enough to use as a work platform, are made of hypalon rather than pvc, etc etc etc.

This is the only post I have found on the forum about an actual canoe. I'm exploring the idea of merging my youthful love of canoeing, with my current sailing life ... would love to hear from anyone who has experience with bringing a canoe on the sailboat.

I'm preparing to sail a 40' 2006 Hanse in northern Georgian Bay and the North Channel in Ontario Canada. I REALLY want to bring a nice canoe as my tender (Swift Keewaydin 16'). But how ... tow it? strap it to the foredeck? secure it to the lifelines?

The carbon kevlar model weighs less than 25kg. For an experienced canoeist, this canoe is a sweet boat. It can handle chop and wake at the anchorage or mooring. After a long day on the boat i don't want to sit in another motor boat. I want some exercise. I'd prefer not to bring a dinghy, motor, fuel ...

For my purposes, a canoe has advantages over a kayak. Not as fast, but better cargo and people capacity, more comfortable, and can be portaged. And still fast enough to shore to dispense with the noisy, heavy dinghy.

Ive looked at the inflatable canoes. Intriguing, because I'd love to pack it away into the aft cabin while offshore (yes the Great Lakes have that.). I just don't trust the canoeing qualities of an inflatable. If it's any extra effort to propel, it's really not a canoe.

I'm not sure there are any other canoe / sailboat enthusiasts out there, and i guess not based upon my search (unless i missed it.). But if you're out there ... ?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Rob S.

This is the only post I have found on the forum about an actual canoe. I'm exploring the idea of merging my youthful love of canoeing, with my current sailing life ... would love to hear from anyone who has experience with bringing a canoe on the sailboat.

I'm preparing to sail a 40' 2006 Hanse in northern Georgian Bay and the North Channel in Ontario Canada. I REALLY want to bring a nice canoe as my tender (Swift Keewaydin 16'). But how ... tow it? strap it to the foredeck? secure it to the lifelines?

The carbon kevlar model weighs less than 25kg. For an experienced canoeist, this canoe is a sweet boat. It can handle chop and wake at the anchorage or mooring. After a long day on the boat i don't want to sit in another motor boat. I want some exercise. I'd prefer not to bring a dinghy, motor, fuel ...

For my purposes, a canoe has advantages over a kayak. Not as fast, but better cargo and people capacity, more comfortable, and can be portaged. And still fast enough to shore to dispense with the noisy, heavy dinghy.

Ive looked at the inflatable canoes. Intriguing, because I'd love to pack it away into the aft cabin while offshore (yes the Great Lakes have that.). I just don't trust the canoeing qualities of an inflatable. If it's any extra effort to propel, it's really not a canoe.

I'm not sure there are any other canoe / sailboat enthusiasts out there, and i guess not based upon my search (unless i missed it.). But if you're out there ... ?

Interesting, I was just out last week to the local islands here and saw a large aluminum canoe strapped on the deck of an old IOR boat converted for cruising. In their case it was strapped inside of the shrouds against the house, upside down. It really looked cumbersome and enormous on the deck but it was manned by some energetic and enthusiastic teens so they were able to launch it ok. Personally I'd put it in the category of "better than nothing" considering its own particular vulnerabilities when it comes to being on the ocean or attempting a beach landing.
Sea Eagle makes an inflatable canoe with "drop-stitch" flat side tubes and floor. Looks interesting if you are into that sort of design. With those rigid tubes, I'm sure it's fast. https://www.seaeagle.com/TravelCanoe/TC16
Given your interest, I'd encourage you to also check out large 2-person inflatable whitewater kayaks.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Rob S.

This is the only post I have found on the forum about an actual canoe. I'm exploring the idea of merging my youthful love of canoeing, with my current sailing life ... would love to hear from anyone who has experience with bringing a canoe on the sailboat.

I'm preparing to sail a 40' 2006 Hanse in northern Georgian Bay and the North Channel in Ontario Canada. I REALLY want to bring a nice canoe as my tender (Swift Keewaydin 16'). But how ... tow it? strap it to the foredeck? secure it to the lifelines?

For shorter distances in good weather we tow our 17 Wenonah, which is very similar to your Keewaydin. It tows easily enough, unloaded, and skates across motorboat wakes that would make me concerned about a capsize if I were in it. It won't fit on the side decks of our Hunter 26 but would probably fit on your Hanse.


It's not unusual for sailors to carry a canoe in the Apostle Islands because they are far more maneuverable in the narrow little inlets and sea caves than a kayak or rowboat let alone anything with a motor. They're much more a part of the boating tradition on the north shore of the Great Lakes than the rowboats of the northeast. People put them on the side decks and figure out a way to lash and chock them in place more or less on their sides with the top of the canoe against the side of the deckhouse.



As a tender, I think the larger rowing dinghies are a better choice in most cases -- stitch and glue kit ones like the PT-11 or CLC's Passagemaker, or fiberglass ones like the Trinka, Gig Harbor, or Fatty Knees. They're more stable, easier to board from the mothership, and easier to fit on deck. You row rather than paddle, which is better for distance. No motor necessary.



The unique advantage of canoes is that they are more maneuverable in tight spots because paddles don't stick out to the side the way oars do, and you face forward so you can see where you're going.


River-oriented canoes like yours (no keel and lots of rocker) can be a handful to keep pointed straight in the wind on open water, especially when lightly loaded.

[mako]

I’m enjoying this thread and thanks to the OP for starting it. I don’t think that a canoe or kayak can replace a proper dinghy if you can fit one.

However regarding to kayak versus SUP versus canoe, in my book a canoe wins hands down. I really have learned to dislike kayaks and just sold my inflatable (for a 50% profit!).

Here in Florida a canoe with its good freeboard and sitting high, makes you feel a lot more comfortable with all the gators we see every day. A kayak makes you feel like a dinner platter.

[thomm225]

The problem with a canoe is that they can be swamped with any decent size wave whereas a kayak would be fine especially if using a skirt.

Also, many kayaks can carry 250 lbs plus the occupant.

My kayak is 16'6" (x 24") and fits on the deck of my Bristol 27 sailboat. It weighs just 45 lbs so it's pretty easy to launch. It also bends a bit to fit along the deck better.

It's also foldable so it will fit in a backpack if necessary.

[Not a spy]

https://youtu.be/264eu3FOh9w
https://truekit.nz/collections/home-...t-on-top-kayak

Check out the True Kit dinghy and IK. I have both and really enjoy rowing the dinghy. It tracks surprisingly well and is lightweight. The IK is coming out tomorrow for its first paddle and I’m sure it’ll be great.

[canman]

To kick things up a notch We use our Alden Ocean Rowing shell all the time as an incredibly fast kayak that's amazingly stable when you sit inside. It;s even faster with the long oars and sliding seat. And the best of workouts too. I can cruise at 6 knots and take passengers....of course it's not a working dinghy but it's my racing bike substitute on the water!
https://www.adirondackrowing.com/alden-single/

[DanielPerry]

Originally Posted by amontyg

Looking for some way to get to shore from my Ericson 32 while out on the Puget Sound this summer. I Borrowed a 10' Dinghy last year a couple times, and found it annoying that it either had to be towed or carried on the bow. I was considering investing in a 2 person sit on top kayak as that may be able to be stored on the side of the boat, not interfering with jib lines, and still providing access to the bow.

Has anyone used a sit on top kayak for this purpose? What are things I may not be considering? I usually only sail with 2-4 people aboard, so it would require a few trips to get everyone to and from.

I use a two-person sit-on-top for the same purpose. I've used an inflatable, a solid pram, and a 14 ft kestrel kayak. The benefit is that you can take two to three people and paddle it like a canoe, anchors can be layed out or retrieved, and I carry my bike to and from the boat comfortably. It's the best dinghy I've used thus far. I'd prefer this over a canoe because you can't swamp it unless it becomes cracked or punctured. If you have to you can take waves into your lap all day.

[NPCampbell]

I was looking for a tender for a small trailerable sailboat. I considered a SOT kayak. I have 2 fishing SOT kayaks already and was surprised to see that the small aluminum bottom ultralight tenders, like the Highfield UL240, are lighter than either of my kayaks. The tender is definitely more bulky but at under 70 pounds I would probably go that direction if I needed it for groceries or guests.