Jib Sheet Clew Attachment Poll

[donradcliffe]

And here we have the racing mentality vs the cruising mentality. The racer says sheet it in until something breaks. The cruiser says fuel that jib until you are not overpowered; the stretchy sheets and halyard are not nearly as hard on your performance as the big belly in your partially fueled jib. The cruiser also cracks off and slows down to keep the big waves from shaking and breaking the boat and crew.

Originally Posted by thinwater

No, not on head sails. For example, sailing to windward in a blow you have the jib sheeted TIGHT and flat so that drag is minimized and it can feather a little in the gusts. If you want to ease the angle, you barber haul it out, but you never ease the sheet. If the sheet can stretch, the sail becomes more full and forces increase during gusts, which is exactly what you do not want.


Same with halyards. You don't want the halyard slacking when it blows hard.



On the main sheet or traveller these negative effects do not happen and a little stretch (not too much) during jibes is a good thing for the cruiser.

[SaltyMetals]

I used to make a bowline for each sheet at the clew but it was v often catching on the shrouds during a tack. Very annoying when you want to get the sail across to the other side as quickly as poss before the full force of the wind hits it on the new tack.

Now (agree w MickMeck) i spliced eyes at the end of each sheet and secure them with one soft shackle. I would suggest that NEVER EVER use a metal shackle at this connection. Seriously dangerous.

As for Coronado's comment, it is a challenge (but not rocket science) to do an eye-splice with braid-on-braid. The first one on a 12mm sheet took me about one hour, the second 40 mins, and the third & fourth only 20 mins. Why a third and fourth? Eventually i know i will end-to-end my genoa sheets and by that time i might have forgotten how to do the eye splaice with braid-on-braid so i made spliced eyes at the other end of each sheet in preparation for an end-to-end.

For the OP: IMHO absolutely no soft shackle at the tack. It would wear out too quickly.
Andrew

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

... I would suggest that NEVER EVER use a metal shackle at this connection. Seriously dangerous...

For 34 years we have used Barient (metal) J-Lock shackles on our jib sheets.

We have sailed in more than 450 races and over 1400 individual sailing trips.

No one has been injured by these shackles.

If you want to talk dangerous, we used wire jib sheets and wire guys for 12 years. That's dangerous, but again, other than meat hooks, no injuries from the wire although one incident came about 2 milliseconds from a decapitation, but all he lost was his hat, which I replaced for him.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Roller Furling
Dedicated double length dacron sheet. The half way point at the sail clew has a Brummell splice. Cured the problem with overlapping headsails hanging up on the shrouds. No more drama tacking even with the 155% genoa.

Do you have a picture? I don't understand a Brummel at mid-sheet but it sounds interesting.

[SaltyMetals]

Wingsail,

Then you have not been on the foredeck when the genoa breaks loose because a sheet breaks in a strong wind, which happened to me. Only thing to do is lie flat on the deck and hope the guys back in the cockpit can get things under control on the other tack with the other surviving sheet. It was already risky with two bowlines in 12mm sheets thrashing back and forth but could have been a death sentence if the sheets had been connected with metal shackles.
Andrew

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by wguinon

I now see why my scheme never got ant traction. Other respondents are running sloops. I'm a cutter man and remove my sheets just once a season

??


Most sloops (including me) don't remove the jib for years.


My concern would be getting the inner stay of a cutter lodged between the legs. Not a problem?


(I've used many methods--most of those suggested except this--and am just following the tread)

[Ween]

Roller Furling on jib and stays'l

single lines cow-hitched to clews

luxurious 8 plait single braid - great hand and behaves so well on deck and in winches

I must not be a racer with my stretchy sheets :-)

still somehow manage >150 miles days...so...

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

And here we have the racing mentality vs the cruising mentality. The racer says sheet it in until something breaks. The cruiser says fuel that jib until you are not overpowered; the stretchy sheets and halyard are not nearly as hard on your performance as the big belly in your partially fueled jib. The cruiser also cracks off and slows down to keep the big waves from shaking and breaking the boat and crew.

I think you meant furled (auto-check, probably).


I disagree on some points.



First, you normally flatten sails before reefing or furling. It is the first step in de-powering, and stretchy sheets prevent doing this effectivly. This has nothing to do with sheeting until something breaks, because you should furl/reef before that. Separate issue.



Second, if pinching is part of your high wind strategy--and it is for many tender boats--then a flatter sail points higher. Furl, by all means, but still keep it flat. This is just good sail trim for weather work. A full jib up wind is nearly always wrong (OK in sloppy waves and light winds) because it does not point and it creates excessive side force. This is just as important for a cruiser as a racer, perhaps more so.


The best course (hard on the wind or cracked off) for smooth sailing depends on both the boat and the wave shape. No hard and fast rules for all boats and conditions. I've sailed boats that were happy hard on the wind or running, but were a rough ride on a reach.


---


On many boats it hardly matters, because the distance from the clew to winch upwind is so short there is scarcely any stretch. Depends on winch location and overlap. Also sheet sizing vs. load (many smaller boats don't load the sheet that hard).


Really, If you can break something by over sheeting, the hardware should be replaced very soon. You may need that sheeting power in a storm off a lee shore. That's a safety issue.

[PaintedKite]

Originally Posted by chrisr

roller furling, 2 sheets attached with bowlines

+1 to chrisr's response

[StuM]

Originally Posted by wobo9a

I apologize - a little too flip.

I was referring to Fred Roswald of Wings. He mentioned a knot for tying fenders in post 11. It sounds like a handy knot, and my experience with Fred is that he is generous with his knowledge. So, it was a little dig and a request for more information.

Ah, yes.


I'd like to know about the "Wings knot" too.

You can never know too many knots

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

Wingsail,

Then you have not been on the foredeck when the genoa breaks loose because a sheet breaks in a strong wind, which happened to me. Only thing to do is lie flat on the deck and hope the guys back in the cockpit can get things under control on the other tack with the other surviving sheet. It was already risky with two bowlines in 12mm sheets thrashing back and forth but could have been a death sentence if the sheets had been connected with metal shackles.
Andrew

Yes, you are correct, I have not been in that situation. The last time a sheet or guy broke on my boat was when we had wire guys, many, many years ago. A broken guy does not result in a flogging sail, it results in a spinnaker going south.

We have used aramid (kevlar technora, etc) sheets on our sails for many years and more recently spectra or dyneema. In fact the same pair of sheets, poly covers and spectra cores, for about 10 years. They are 12mm. They have metal shackles on the ends, as shown. There are no knots, none, just properly done splices.

We have not had a sheet break, however we are racing again tomorrow, it may happen.

And yes, a flogging headsail with a shackle won't be fun, nor a 12mm rope with a bowline tied to a stainless steel D-Ring on the clew of the jib. Both could be deadly. However, the flogging sail will likely be on one side of the boat or the other, not directly over the foredeck hands, and certainly they will either be ducking under it or pulling back behind the mast.

But I worry about my forward hands whenever we sail, the rest of the crew also, so I try to have good equipment in good repair, and I don't skimp on running rigging.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by StuM

Ah, yes.


I'd like to know about the "Wings knot" too.

You can never know too many knots

I'll show you tomorrow when there is light for a photo.

[Waihaka]

Sorry, knot a clew!

[upstateny]

Rigging Doctor video on Integrated Dyneema Soft Shackle is a great video to check out on soft shackles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnYfCxocZNk

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by teneicm

Interesting. To me that's counter-intuitive. I would think that with a high modulus sail that's unable to stretch you would WANT a stretchier jib sheet to prevent shock loads during a gust. Possibly desirable for a racing boat, but I would think a bit of stretch is more forgiving and easier on the equipment for a cruising sailboat.

It's interesting to me the discussion of using stretchy sheets and halyards, and I don't mean this as a criticism. I can understand the idea of building some cushion into the system. I just have never considered it, and I still won't, because the consistent sail shape for the angle of attack and the wind speed is what what makes the difference between drive and drag. If conditions are too much for a given sail area then by far it is best to reduce the sail area. (which also beats out leaving the sail up and letting the sail start to luff a bit... but I am guilty of that one when I just don't feel like going up to change my hanked on sail) If the sail keeps changing shape in response to gusts then I can't see how the boat could maintain its speed and ability to point. On a mono-hull the benefits to rigging, fittings and sails come from the heeling of the boat that allows it to dump the load of wind and mediate strain, something that multihulls need to be more aware of I believe.

Also interesting the comment from Thinwater, about boats that sail better running and hard on the wind than they do on a reach. I've never sailed a boat like that. Which boats are those? An IOR design?