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Old 22-09-2019, 05:54   #31
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

Crossing oceans and full time liveaboard I think amel is by far best choice- systems, storage, accessibility to mechanicals, sea going galley etc. but for Chesapeake amel is kind of deep draft.
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Old 22-09-2019, 06:00   #32
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

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Crossing oceans and full time liveaboard I think amel is by far best choice- systems, storage, accessibility to mechanicals, sea going galley etc. but for Chesapeake amel is kind of deep draft.
Agreed, due to functionally the Amel makes a great world voyaging yacht. I particularly like the deck storage,I'm abit envious in that department.

Not sure I agree on the galley, I prefer one that you can lock yourself into abit.Click image for larger version

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Old 22-09-2019, 06:00   #33
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

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Crossing oceans and full time liveaboard I think amel is by far best choice- systems, storage, accessibility to mechanicals, sea going galley etc. but for Chesapeake amel is kind of deep draft.
Can you be a bit more specific about what makes Amel a better Ocean Crossing and a live aboard vessel and most importantly, can I outfit Jeanneau with similar systems for a much lower price. For the sake of argument Amel 50 vs Jeanneau 51. Both are similar sized sloops.
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Old 22-09-2019, 06:09   #34
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

Interesting. The new Amel 50 is 18t (light) and 22.2t (heavy) for a slightly shorter boat.

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...


The Super Maramu isnt particularly heavy for its size, approx 16 metric tonne according to sail boat data. Keep in mind this is a 53 foot boat and is solid glass, not cored.

...
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Old 22-09-2019, 06:18   #35
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

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So as a car and a motorcycle enthusiast I can explain exactly what the difference is between a fiat and a Mercedes, I am looking for help to understand this in sailboats. It’s is my understanding that most systems come from other manufacturers anyway... Masts come from Selden, winches from Harken, engines from Yanmar, etc...

Are Amel masts from Selden now?


Ouch.


They used to be built in house be either Amel themselves or a local subcontractor - and to a much higher standard. Never heard of a jam in an Amel mast but a friend on a posh HR boat was forced to chop off his main once ... mid Atlantic ...


b.
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Old 22-09-2019, 06:28   #36
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

I do not know today (last Amel I was onboard and down below was the odd 54 model) but Amels were always built for a cruising couple (plus a guest maybe).


Jeanneau, Bavarias, Benes and the rest of the kind were always built for charter market - many cabins, handholds far and apart. OPEN SPACE. Not a bad thing if you have a large family or when you want to have more people onboard without rubbing elbows every five minutes, eh?


As I sail two with my partner, I would take Amel for ourselves. Full stop. ... coma ??? So.... if my partner were to give up on me, I would be free to take the Jeanneau and load it up to the gunnel with lovely Caribbean models and ...


Have a HUGE deck party for everybody! - Not quite a viable option with an Amel.


Older Amels roll at anchor too - big way. arghhhhhhh Drinks would get spilled.



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Old 22-09-2019, 06:53   #37
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

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What I find interesting and not spoken about is , the stuff I see failing on boats isnt usually what's built by the boat company, I dont see hulls and interiors failing, .....

Amels stand out for me is its functionality, eg engine room.
I sort of disagree.

The interior fit and finish is one of of the big factors between a 2019 high end boat and a 2019 Jenneau. Jenneau and other boats use a lot of Formica and other plastic laminates for the cabinetry. High end boats use hardwoods, sometimes they are hardwood veneers- but hardwood. The difference between a plastic laminate and hardwood appears after 5-10 years. The plastic laminate will look like--- old plastic laminate. In 39 years the hardwood on my Tartan 33 looks great. It has some "character dents" from stuff that was dropped or banged around- but the adds to the patina of hardwoods. Keep it oiled and it looks impressive.

While I do not have the science to back it, I would wager a beer to a top-shelf scotch that the tabbing of bulkheads and layup schedule of the Amel are to a higher standard than the Jenneau.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Jenneau line. I've run charters and have delivered their whole product line. Personally I find the layout and sailing traits of their boats are very nice. But given the intended use of the OP and that an Amen is in the budget- he would be best served by buying the Amel.

Both will fulfill the intended use, the Amel is just the better boat.
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Old 22-09-2019, 07:13   #38
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

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I sort of disagree.

The interior fit and finish is one of of the big factors between a 2019 high end boat and a 2019 Jenneau. Jenneau and other boats use a lot of Formica and other plastic laminates for the cabinetry. High end boats use hardwoods, sometimes they are hardwood veneers- but hardwood. The difference between a plastic laminate and hardwood appears after 5-10 years. The plastic laminate will look like--- old plastic laminate. In 39 years the hardwood on my Tartan 33 looks great. It has some "character dents" from stuff that was dropped or banged around- but the adds to the patina of hardwoods. Keep it oiled and it looks impressive.

While I do not have the science to back it, I would wager a beer to a top-shelf scotch that the tabbing of bulkheads and layup schedule of the Amel are to a higher standard than the Jenneau.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Jenneau line. I've run charters and have delivered their whole product line. Personally I find the layout and sailing traits of their boats are very nice. But given the intended use of the OP and that an Amen is in the budget- he would be best served by buying the Amel.

Both will fulfill the intended use, the Amel is just the better boat.
That's the thing, we dont know how much better the layup schedule etc is, we assume it's much better, is it 3 times better qualifying the price?

Regarding tabbing , I prefer glassed in bulk heads as well, I'm trained to prefer them, Its one of the reasons I choose my boat over other boats of its size and price BUT in the real world does it make a difference? It may but I'm not seeing it. I've had 2 friends complete circumnavigations this year , one on a benteau, one on a Jeanneau, the jeanneau did lose its rudder in Indonesia, not sure why BUT I also know a Malo that sunk due to rudder skeg failure, stuff happens unfortunately, not just to so called production boats. My mates bene didnt pop bulk heads or anything like that he saw all the same seas as the guys we know on Amels.

I think the OP is justified in questioning the price difference, most dont ,they just except the time worn dogma that keeps getting repeated. I used to repeat the same stuff ,but what I know and what I see dosent always match.
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Old 22-09-2019, 07:22   #39
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

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Are Amel masts from Selden now?


Ouch.


They used to be built in house be either Amel themselves or a local subcontractor - and to a much higher standard. Never heard of a jam in an Amel mast but a friend on a posh HR boat was forced to chop off his main once ... mid Atlantic ...


b.
I know 2 amels that have jammed their main, no different from others if not operated correctly......I'm not trying to be argumentative, and as I said I like Amels but I'm not convinced all the myths are true.
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Old 22-09-2019, 08:01   #40
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

there are too many variables when it comes to these kinds of things - What about maintenance, what about wear and tear? Do Amels usually have more miles on the clock but stand up better to those miles. Do the jams happen because they have just put 10K on the rig? Who knows.


I think you can take any boat and provided it's maintained well and set up good, you can sail it anywhere. And this applies to the Beneteaus and Jeanneaus. I'd have no problems sailing them anywhere.



With my limited exposure to Amels , they are focused solely on the cruiser and so the boat is set up for this - the engine/tech room is great (and it uses up space that would be turned into a cabin in other boats). The storage is well thought out and they come with big tanks, which you would have to add to less expensive Benns or Jeanneaus. The on deck storage is great and sail area kept small as it's only about cruising.



Somebody told me recently that when something goes wrong on an Amel you rarely have to pull the boat apart to fix it. Some other boats would need a lot of work to just find where the problem is.


I don't think these factors make the Amels any more seaworthy but they might make life cruising a little easier.



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I know 2 amels that have jammed their main, no different from others if not operated correctly......I'm not trying to be argumentative, and as I said I like Amels but I'm not convinced all the myths are true.
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Old 22-09-2019, 08:06   #41
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

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As most on here know, I'm a zealot for old amels. I wouldn't trade our 26 year old super maramu for any other boat I've been inside or sailed so far (including new 50s and 55s). But that is because of our particular quirky needs and as liveaboards. I dislike the new amels designed after Mr Amel died. They are more like, well, jenneaus etc, and they lost many of the design features long ranging liveaboards loved about them. But reading the posts, if all you want is a short range sailor and caribbean cruiser, then they'd be fine, if expensive I think.
What I find interesting is how many of us have all found features and characteristics on the boats we have which we would not live without, yet the boats are so radically different.

We look at an Amel vs a Jeanneau vs a full keel steel cruiser vs my old IOR racer; all totally different, yet each of us says about the others, "if all you want is a short range sailor and Caribbean cruiser, then they'd be fine".

I think this says more about the owners than the boats.
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Old 22-09-2019, 08:17   #42
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

I think the engine room on the Amels is a very good asset on a world cruising boat.

The port side engine access on my boat is absolutely terrible, what were they thinking.

Engine access is important, I have good access to the rest.
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Old 22-09-2019, 09:45   #43
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Are Amel masts from Selden now?

Ouch.

They used to be built in house be either Amel themselves or a local subcontractor - and to a much higher standard. Never heard of a jam in an Amel mast but a friend on a posh HR boat was forced to chop off his main once ... mid Atlantic ...

b.

Amel still builds their own masts.
Send them an email or visit the factory.
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Old 22-09-2019, 10:02   #44
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

I am obviously biased (I own an Amel 50) but, I asked a similar question when I was trying to decide on my next boat.
I have also owned a Beneteau 49.

To sum it up, there is no comparison.

Amel boats take about 3 times longer to build than a comparable sized Jeanneau. The parts quality is very different. Everything is oversized and designed with care on an Amel. The hull/deck/bulkheads are glassed together. The cabinet are glasses on the hull. There are watertight compartments everywhere. The engine room. I can go on and on.

You can enjoy sailing in a Jeanneau, just as you can drive in a Chevrolet instead of a Mercedes (or any other well designed luxury car).

Do not take my word for it. Visit the factories and see for yourself. I did and I’m in my Amel writing this...
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Old 22-09-2019, 10:08   #45
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Re: Jeanneau vs Amel

I think it's horses for courses. Also, I think that some of this discussion is based on the OP's inexperience - particularly long term voyaging.

Case in point: Amel 50 displacement, 41,336 lbs. vs Jeanneau 51 31,747
Amel 178 gal. fuel vs Jeanneau 63 gal.

This translates into more capacity for provisioning and greater range for the Amel. For Bay sailing and occasional jump to Bahamas, probably not germane.

I believe that Amel are still "stick built", whereas the Jeanneau utilize hull liners. I am not a fan of hull liners.

While production (line) boats like the Jeanneau can achieve good quality, you will see the use of sealants to cover panel gaps, paper thin veneers, lack of customization, reduced storage compared to the Amel, shallower bilges/flatter hulls, lower quality sails (commonly referred to as delivery sails), etc., etc.

Either might be a good choice for the OP's stated use. For the Bay I might go with the Jeanneau. For blue water voyaging I would go with the Amel. As to the price differential, I think that a Jeanneau kitted out to the Amel level would see an increase of 80-90% to select the Amel, not the 200-300% numbers being thrown around.

Not mentioned by anyone is factory support after the sale. Which do you think will be there for you five years down the road, or when you break a cabinet door while in the Maldives? And which boat will maintain value better?

There may also be a good boat choice other than these two that splits the differences, including the costs.
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