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Old 15-01-2021, 08:30   #46
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

A quick note on the difference between the the “mass produced” boats and the others. Two things to consider. Among my cruising friends who are live aboards with many 10’s of thousands of miles under their keel call Beneteaus Bendy’s for short. The hulls use a grid system to offset the load from the mast thus the hulls are less stout. That doesn’t make them bad boats at all. It just means over heavy use over time they may have scalloping in the hull. To get them to perform better they have flatter bottoms then your say “offshore boats”. Interesting the cost of an interior runs around 60% of the boat. Beneteau uses laminates that are veneer to keep costs done. Less wood is used every year. Your more expensive boats are going with solid wood or at the very least use plywood for substrates instead of particles board. That drives the cost up dramatically.

Another friend of mine cruised for 2 yers in the Bahamas on a Beneteau 411. She was about 20 years old when he bought her. He loved the boat. After two years he had only one negative thing to say. When at anchor in higher than normal wind he could clearly hear the waves slapping at the hull especially in the aft cabin. It was a bi annoying. When he sold the boat he got close to what he bought it for. Of course did not include the upgrades he did.
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Old 15-01-2021, 08:36   #47
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fbfisher View Post
Agree, I’ve seen several sailboats all around me change hands, I have a friend looking for a 36-38’ sailboat and unable to find one in good shape and priced right. The next to me, an early/mid-80’s Catalina 36’ in decent condition had been on the market for over two years. It just sold for $50K. The buyer flew in from Las Vegas, looked at it and bought it. Broker friends are thrilled with the hottest market they’ve seen in decades. Their lament, “no inventory.”
Exactly. I am currently looking and now know exactly what I want, but I simply can't find a decent boat. All of the brokers I've spoken to in the U.S. (and I have spoken to many) are dying for more inventory.
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Old 15-01-2021, 09:03   #48
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

I’ve visited the sailboat factory in France, and both Lagoon factories, one in the Vendee south of Nante, the other near Bordeaux. If it was built in the US, it will have one hull stamp beginning with BY. If built in France the hull stamp will begin with FR. Boats built in France for the US Market usually have two hull stamps. The factory in Marion NC closed last year.

I think the quality of the Jeanneau was better than Beneteau in the 80’s but it switched after Beneteau became the parent company.

The video was good. I’ve done many coastal deliveries and a few trans-Pacific trips on Beneteaus 32ft-55ft, They all performed well and held up very well.
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Old 15-01-2021, 09:11   #49
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

Deanosc, I've had a '95 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 371 (37'6") for several years now and had her on the market, off and on, over the last couple of years. Second owner, no charter. She's quite comfortable, sails very well to weather (and on every other point of sail). There was a perception that the earlier Jeanneau's were of better quality than the later models (after Beneteau bought them). I don't know that I would attach more or less significance to that but, rather think it's more about how the boat was maintained and how well all the systems function and suit your needs. My SO371 has served me well as a means of sailing, diving and matter of general comfort. My other boat, a Pearson 365, is of '70s vintage and, as is common for those years of production, has a very stout hull and construction. Boats of that vintage were generally hand laid and heavier. I like both for different reasons. The freeboard on the Pearson doesn't lend itself to stepping into the water with dive gear (pretty much have to toss the equipment overboard or into the dinghy with it). She also sails well. Like others have noted, it's as much about what you want in the boat as it is the boat itself. Thankfully, each of my boats reside on a mooring in the Carribean, reducing the costs of ownership. Guess I'll have to pick one of them to keep and one to sell in order for something to make sense. As to inventory availability of sailboats, I think there were more available pre-Covid than now. Good luck finding something that suits you. That in itself is as much an adventure as anything else.
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Old 15-01-2021, 09:12   #50
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

Check the reviews by boat owners. I have found them quite honest. I know of one Benetau that the owners rated as dangerous.
The French boats have iron keels. Check their condition. An iron keel can be a lot of maintenance.
I have also read that their through hulls are brass and not bronze and should be replaced after 5 years. I hope this is not accurate.
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Old 15-01-2021, 09:46   #51
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

We took a Beneteau Oceanus 440 (Moorings Beneteau 445) around the world after it had been in charter for just under four years. It is built like a tank with seriously robust rigging and steering. Yes we had to upgrade it from a coastal cruiser to a fully Bluewater capable sailing vessel. Great thing is there is all kinds of space to put new gear such as a desalinator, more batteries, inner forestay, whisker pole and so on. Lots of water tankage but short on diesel tankage. Lots of deck and lazaret storage for jerry jugs though. Just be sure you do a through hull integrity test. Some production runs had an osmosis problem.
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Old 15-01-2021, 09:51   #52
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

Beneteau had 60% of the boat US boat market because they did a good job of straddling comfort/sailing ability/quality.
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Old 15-01-2021, 09:52   #53
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

I have been very happy sailing my used privately owned Jeanneau SO469, mainly singlehanding it, for the past few years. Lots of time in the Bahamas including 5 day ocean legs. I found that charter boats on the market frequently are less expensive due to equipment. Private boats tend to have gensets, Davits, solar etc that are useful but expensive.
The Beneteau and Jeanneau do have some different construction styles. Both similar quality but different.
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Old 15-01-2021, 10:50   #54
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

Production boats are decently built & offer great value. They do trade off some fit & finish quality vs. higher end builders. A few examples: laminated doors, floorboards, inexpensive foam upholstery/mattresses, the use of a Saildrive in place of a traditional prop assembly, bolted on, cast iron keels, deck stepped masts & a lighter layup in general. This doesn’t mean they’re inferior necessarily, but they aren’t terrific blue water boats from a comfort standpoint. However, all are capable of moving us safely in good weather windows, just don’t expect a 18,000 lb. Bene 45 to ‘smooth out’ rollers like a 30,000 lb.old school boat like a Hans Christian, etc. that said, as a live aboard, I’ll take more room on a daily basis in exchange for a bumpy ride once in a while!
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Old 15-01-2021, 11:38   #55
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanosc View Post
Hey everyone so I am seeing a lot of these boats for sail and generally the price seems a lot lower than other boats for newer year models. Is there a specific reason for this? Something in the quality of the build? Cost to maintain? General ability in the ocean?

I am curious because it looks like there is a lot of good deal but I cant help but feel hesitant.

Any explanation would be greatly appreciated.

We've owned three Beneteaus, most recently a 2013 Oceanis 45'. Four years ago we downsized and purchased a Tartan 3700 built in 2001. The Beneteaus are brilliantly designed and engineered, and the basic quality of the hulls is good. However, they are built for the mass market, and therefore to a "price point." The hardware is just not the highest quality. The woodwork is thin veneers, not solid wood. Subsystems are not necessarily the highest quality. Nothing on a Beneteau is bad, but being in the Tartan one does feel and see the difference in building to a higher standard.
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Old 15-01-2021, 12:01   #56
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

My Oceanis 445 (Farr design) came out of the Moorings fleet by way of a charter company in Puget Sound. I bought her for less than half of her new price about 5 years old. I chartered her through a Puget Sound company for several years when I wasn't using her, which paid for everything she needed to come out of charter as a very comfortable, clean and well found family cruiser. She's a lovely young woman now at 28 years of age. In the last 5 years I have repowered, re-rigged (standing and running), new sails and lots more. (It is true that the rigging costs more than the hull!) I don't plan to sell her till I am too old to sail. I'd do all this over again if I were 20 years younger. Beneteau has mass produced boats for the charter trade for many years. To keep doing that for Moorings in the Caribbean, they have refined what they build to meet needs for boats to stand up to open ocean winds, some big water and not infrequent pounding waves. Moorings makes money by allowing anyone to sail their boats in those conditions if they claim to know the pointy end is the front. They make nothing if they pay too much for their fleet, if it is always broken down or if it sails like crap. And the boats must remain safe. So their boats need to be good (not great) quality materials, pleasing designs and easy to work on. They also have to be comfortable enough and good enough performers to satisfy. In other words, a good value. I don't like the thru hulls, the iron keel ($ to keep it epoxy coated) and the cheesyness of some of the lighting and other fancy do dads. They were easy enough to replace if they really offended. If I did it again, I'd look for the newest, cleanest, best priced ex charter I could find and plan to charter it myself for a few years again to get it to pay for its refit. A really high quality comprehensive survey is a must to do it this way. And don't do any fancy stuff refitting until you are ready to take it out of charter. Charter boats are like rental apartments to own. Build in a cleaning and maintenance budget.
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Old 15-01-2021, 12:16   #57
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

We bought our boat new in 2018. There were some minor issues (a punch list) as expected, nothing major.

The boat was built in Marion, SC, and the hull number starts with "BE" not "BY" as claimed above.

All the hulls and decks for each model are the same. So our boat does not have a self-tacking jib, but the deck has the surfaces required to mount the track for one. I was told by the dealership that any factory option could be added later (though at greater expense).

I believe Beneteau attempts to use the same hardware on all boats. At some point, as the size of the boats diverge greatly, that changes.

Our boat is easy to short, or single, hand which is great. OTOH, there is enough room for a small crowd.

I was talking with another sailor who has one of the classic, heavy hulled boats. I mentioned that my boat doesn't cut through the steep Chesapeake Bay chop well, kind of bouncing over it. He said his boat does cut through the chop, though a ton of water then gets thrown over the hull. Seems to be a toss up....
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Old 15-01-2021, 12:19   #58
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
I wonder how this Covid thing is playing out with the boat builders.

From where I stand, the sailboat activity has ground to a near standstill.

Yachtworld is packed to the brim with used boats, most with discounted prices.

How do you convince someone to buy a new boat, when there is such a plethora of used boats to pick from...most at very attractive prices as compared to a new boat.

Area marina's in my neck of the woods are...maybe....at 50% capacity...and of that number, only a small percentage are sailboats.

And marina rates are going up. Slip fees are starting to become exorbitant....and if you don't use your boat or live on your boat, that is starting to take a big chunk out of a depleted paycheck. Your average 40' sailboat slip is now at $600-700/month, plus taxes, environmental fees, electric, etc. Down in south Florida it is even more expensive...plus insurance....tack on another $50...plus maintenance...haulouts, etc..and if you are making boat payments....add that to the above..and let's not forget sales tax when you buy the boat....that can add another $10,000 to your boat purchase.

Anchoring has become harder...it's all mooring fields now....figure on $15/day...etc

Sailboats are typically a depreciating asset......and now, with such a large inventory of used boats, trying to sell a boat has become difficult. A quick sale requires a very attractive price otherwise your boat can sit for a very long time.

When all is said and done, the selling price of a boat is but one factor to consider.
Strange, i don’t know where you live ? Here in Europ Covid gave a big boost to second hand and new boat sales. A friend wanted to buy a second hand boat but decided to wait, because he expected the prices would go down because of Covid. We are 6 months later now, he still has found no boat, prices are up and the second hand market is mostly sold out.
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Old 15-01-2021, 13:00   #59
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

The big thing I have noticed about charter boat prices being so low is that they don't come with much. I was looking at a $30,000 difference between two boats of the same make and year. The one that had been lived aboard and blue water sailed had a new and integrated AIS, Radio set up for Marine and Ham bands, 4 sets of sails for back-up and different weather, a new(ish) Hydrovane(!), freshly re-certified liferaft, and other stuff that was on my list of "must haves". Assuming hulls and standing rigging are equivalent the more expensive one is the better deal.
As for more berths than one couple needs, I would rather have a converted tool room/sail/scuba workshop than a big aft berth with a sitting area.
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Old 15-01-2021, 13:34   #60
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Re: Jeanneau and Beneteau

As a previous Beneteau 37 owner I found it to be well made. One reason is because it is made right here in South Carolina. I visited the factory and all the good old folks there were extremely proud of their work. They hydrostatically test each boat for leakage in a large tank before completion.
All the standard Beneteaus come with in mast furling, probably for charter fleets.
The “First” models-types are more for performance with a more standard rig.
Against Catalina and Bavaria the Beneteau was well worth the cost, which usually was lower.
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