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Old 20-07-2018, 08:54   #61
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much?

I spent The 1st half of my sailing carrer adding junk to my boat... 2nd half stripping it all off.
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Old 20-07-2018, 08:54   #62
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much?

+1 on the below, especially since ďit does not mean we cannot continue our journey without any one or all of them.Ē Very well put.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wrwakefield View Post
Forget for a minute that you are discussing what is on someone's boat, and ask yourself the same questions about your home...

What would you be willing to do without in your full time abode? City water and power? Dishwasher? Clothes washer/dryer? [Surely laundromats are readily accessible...] Refrigerator/freezer [sans icemaker?] Pressurized water? Hot water? Etc... [I'm ignoring personal choices for counter top materials, etc...]

The things we may take for granted in our homes may also be taken for granted by some in their floating homes... And that is all relative... Some boaters feel that pressure water is unnecessary. Likewise for hot water... I think we just come to terms with what we have available... [I know I have on the 5 boats I've owned over the years...]

I suspect some of the items listed in the original post [icemaker, wine cooler, trash compactor, etc.] are likely readily available [i.e., relatively cheap] counter top/under counter consumer products, so I discount them in this discussion.

RE: Requiring more maintenance? You bet; more working parts means proportional increases in repair/ maintenance time and cost. But how much really? How often have you had to work on the dishwasher in your home? Refrigerator? Washer/dryer? Trash compactor? [If often, then it is probably time for a new unit or a different brand... Like everything else in our consumer society...]

What is too much on a boat is an individual question. Much may depend upon whether the boat is a full time abode, a weekend retreat, a charter business [or floating B&B] or?

Our boat is our full time home, and it takes us everywhere we go. None of our appliances keep us at the dock nor require extraneous maintainance. To the contrary; they allow us to leave the dock [and 'civilization'] for considerable periods of time while accommodating our preferred lifestyle...

Our goal is to visit remote areas for as long as possible between stops in populated areas for services and supplies. That means we need to determine what our limitiing factors are: Fuel, water, food, trash, laundry, etc. We can go about 4 months comfortably, and then trash becomes the primary limiting factor. [We've been considering a trash compactor to ameliorate this...] Then groceries [5-6 months]. Then fuel. [Depending upon distances traveled under power (~1200 mile cruising range), heat, generator runtime, etc...]

For us, the boat and appliances that enable us this freedom [while maintaining an approximation of the lifestyle we became accustomed to over the years] are not luxeries; they are necessities... [e.g., watermaker; pressure hot water, heat and A/C; generator; large fuel capacity; washer/dryer; etc.] That said, it does not mean we cannot continue our journey without any one or all of them...

Everyone has their own standards, needs, and requirements, and all those morph as our use cases change... Each of us make constant material choices [acquire, repair, jetison, etc.] which often change with experience, needs, and time...

On thing has become clear to me over time: it is difficult to go backwards... 'luxuries' become necessities; it is a matter of what we think is a luxury... [e.g., Ice cream...]

Cheers! Bill
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Old 20-07-2018, 09:42   #63
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much?

If you want all the comforts of home. Then stay there.
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Old 20-07-2018, 10:24   #64
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much?

Oh... donít forget the maid and the mechanic! KISS 💋
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Old 20-07-2018, 10:35   #65
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much?

Sometimes that is what it takes to get your wife to go with you.
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Old 20-07-2018, 14:58   #66
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much?

I can't see faulting anyone for being as comfortable as possible. The same is true on land or sea. It would be interesting to see how many would toss their engines overboard to make there time on water "simpler "
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Old 20-07-2018, 15:09   #67
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Hard to take this seriously. I suppose itís possible ó with very deep pockets. But as BP says, this boat will either rarely leave the dock, or will travel on a tide of money.

I must admit, this kind of scenario leaves me confused. If luxury and work-saving devices are such a priority, then why choose a boat at all? And in this case, a relatively small one?? Itís a heck of a lot easier, and probably cheaper, to have all this and more on land.
Yeah, that's what I think too.

For me that would be too much, especially on a 40' boat, but it depends on what you want in a boat and what you plan to do.

We wanted to SAIL. SAIL ALL THE TIME. We wanted it to be fun to sail and easy to live on so we kept all the performance aspects of our boat and added what was needed to be as comfy at anchor as at the dock. Less weight was essential, so we kept it light. But that doesn't mean we don't have comfort.

We have pressure water, hot water (gas instant), AC sine wave power from an good inverter, charge the batteries with solar and the main engine when needed, wash dishes by hand, laundry we take ashore. We have a good refer with a small freezer which can make small quantities of ice if it is not full of frozen meat, a window type air conditioner which is used when on shore power otherwise stowed, and we have full sailing equipment and great sails and winches, etc, ground tackle and full electronics and, as others have said, autopilot, VHF, SSB, electric windlass, watermaker (small), instruments, GPS chartplotter, AIS, dink-motor, liferaft), for comfort we have comfortable settees, good lighting for reading (track lights), roomy head, seperate shower, huge double berth, workshop, good nav station. Gobs of storage, and it still can SAIL. (It's 43 ft. <Wingssail Images-Cruising Photos from Around the Pacific>)

But it depends on what you really want, a sailboat or a condo. (if the latter, then stay home, you'll be happier, and you be back there soon anyhow, as soon as you get tired of fixing things and tired of a poor sailing boat which must be motored everywhere)

Other people here have already said it all:

"On that boat, where do you sleep and how could it possibly still sail? Because all the bunks will be piled with clothes, tools, provisions etc as your lockers will be full of machinery. Storage room is more valuable than power hungry electrical appliances. Oh and make sure the tools are not stuffed at the foot end of an aft berth. Youíll be using them a lot."

"Complexity comes with a cost that is measured in time, frustration, and money. I have a 40í boat without any of that stuff and still feel I spend more hours per week on maintenance than I would like, at least an hour per day if not more.

"Vast overkill. The more you have the more you work on and your list sounds like dockside living focused.

"get all that house junk off the boat - you need storage for food, tools, spare parts, clothing, charts and everything else to keep that little self-contained world working when you're a long way from anywhere and all on your own.

"Weekend cruises, nights plugged in at a marina, jaunts up and down the Intracoastal, cocktails at 5-[That]could be the perfect boat.
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Old 20-07-2018, 16:16   #68
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by degouwb View Post
I can't see faulting anyone for being as comfortable as possible. The same is true on land or sea. It would be interesting to see how many would toss their engines overboard to make there time on water "simpler "

Thanks Wingssail, nicely put.

It's not a question of faulting someone who seeks comfort. The real issue or question is what is the actual cost-benefit of the choices we make.

Nothing comes for free, and the choice to carry luxury or work-saving devices on a boat always comes as a tradeoff between possible benefits vs cost in money and time. There may also be unanticipated costs such as dependancy.

The Pardey's had a notion of making your cruising boat "unstoppable." In part this meant never relying so deeply on any one doodad that it would necessitate an end to cruising. Yet this reality is all too common now with boats that can't go on without a fridge/freezer, without an autohelm, without an engine (I suffer from this last one).

No one is opposed to comfort and luxury. The real question comes down to the actual cost of our choices. Understanding this is the real challenge when faced with all the shinny new doodads that we could load on our boats.
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Old 20-07-2018, 19:50   #69
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much?

It's all about money,
If money is not an issue, go for it.
If your on a budget, forget it.
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Old 20-07-2018, 22:32   #70
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrwakefield View Post
Forget for a minute that you are discussing what is on someone's boat, and ask yourself the same questions about your home...

What would you be willing to do without in your full time abode? City water and power? Dishwasher? Clothes washer/dryer? [Surely laundromats are readily accessible...] Refrigerator/freezer [sans icemaker?] Pressurized water? Hot water? Etc... [I'm ignoring personal choices for counter top materials, etc...]

The things we may take for granted in our homes may also be taken for granted by some in their floating homes... And that is all relative... Some boaters feel that pressure water is unnecessary. Likewise for hot water... I think we just come to terms with what we have available... [I know I have on the 5 boats I've owned over the years...]

I suspect some of the items listed in the original post [icemaker, wine cooler, trash compactor, etc.] are likely readily available [i.e., relatively cheap] counter top/under counter consumer products, so I discount them in this discussion.

RE: Requiring more maintenance? You bet; more working parts means proportional increases in repair/ maintenance time and cost. But how much really? How often have you had to work on the dishwasher in your home? Refrigerator? Washer/dryer? Trash compactor? [If often, then it is probably time for a new unit or a different brand... Like everything else in our consumer society...]

What is too much on a boat is an individual question. Much may depend upon whether the boat is a full time abode, a weekend retreat, a charter business [or floating B&B] or?

Our boat is our full time home, and it takes us everywhere we go. None of our appliances keep us at the dock nor require extraneous maintainance. To the contrary; they allow us to leave the dock [and 'civilization'] for considerable periods of time while accommodating our preferred lifestyle...

Our goal is to visit remote areas for as long as possible between stops in populated areas for services and supplies. That means we need to determine what our limitiing factors are: Fuel, water, food, trash, laundry, etc. We can go about 4 months comfortably, and then trash becomes the primary limiting factor. [We've been considering a trash compactor to ameliorate this...] Then groceries [5-6 months]. Then fuel. [Depending upon distances traveled under power (~1200 mile cruising range), heat, generator runtime, etc...]

For us, the boat and appliances that enable us this freedom [while maintaining an approximation of the lifestyle we became accustomed to over the years] are not luxeries; they are necessities... [e.g., watermaker; pressure hot water, heat and A/C; generator; large fuel capacity; washer/dryer; etc.] That said, it does not mean we cannot continue our journey without any one or all of them...

Everyone has their own standards, needs, and requirements, and all those morph as our use cases change... Each of us make constant material choices [acquire, repair, jetison, etc.] which often change with experience, needs, and time...

On thing has become clear to me over time: it is difficult to go backwards... 'luxuries' become necessities; it is a matter of what we think is a luxury... [e.g., Ice cream...]

Cheers! Bill
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Old 21-07-2018, 08:38   #71
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much?

People who love boats and the water and hopefully sailing come in all different shapes and sizes. Everyone does it somewhat different in their own way.
I am OK living an almost pretty spartan life Iím off docks at night, donít use my engine much and buy ice every few days.
But my boat is properly equipped for my living, adventures and goals. Hooray!
Someone else wants to do it up like Trump Tower?
What do I care? Heís getting what he wants, too.
I hope he is an experienced and good captain
Or the learning curve isnít overhanging.
Or has very deep pockets.
And yes, thatís a lot in 40í.
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