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**hpeer** · 05-11-2019, 08:15

That 46’ steel Fisher had some kind of special Windows. Can’t recall details. I do remember that it had a sliding “moon roof” on the pilot house. 2” thick.

Ibetitsthisway · 05-11-2019, 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Not sure about those big windows... not a problem in ice but possibly a problem getting to or from the ice.

If the bridge windows could be stove in on the München they can be stove in on anything.......

It is posts like These That remind me of Not becoming easy on passive security Features...

Yellowtulip · 05-11-2019, 08:34

Looking through this thread, it seems to me that you've already convinced yourself that you want a steel boat for the rare or few occasions when you venture into ice. Fair enough. BUT then you discover that a suitable steel boat is expensive. Welcome to the real world! Few of us can afford our ideal boat. There are two solutions.
1. Tailor your sailing to a boat you can afford.
2. Go with the nearest boat to your ideal that you can afford and see how far you get.

If you find that the NW passage (for example) is a step too far for you or your equipment then don't go. It's that simple, and there's no shame in that.
There's a whole world of great sails my that doesn't involve extremes.

**hpeer** · 05-11-2019, 08:37

Exactly correct

Quote:

I do not Find the right boat because i am Stück With my checkboxes.. :

Here is how our big boat stacks up to your ideal

Steel -1/4’ keel, 3/16“ Elsewhere
Pilot house - soft dodger
Long to full keel - check
Avs min. 150 degrees - not a clue
Watertight bulkheads - nope
Ketch - cutter (better - more simple)
2 heating systems - Espar and Kero bulkhead but also kero lantern
!arge water and Diesel bunks - 187 gal water 160 gal diesel
Not to large windows - opening ports
No Windows in transom - none
Min 90cm searail - probably
Watertight If capzised - standard companionway with boards, not a dog able door
Etc etc etc..

We paid $93k 10 years ago. New Yanmar with 620 hours, Jewish main and Yankee. Interior refit in progress. I’ve probably spent another $60k on her with various upgrades and I’ve done a ton of personal work including a on arch and replaced the bow sprit with 316 Ss.

She might sell today for $80k if she were for sale, she is not. 1987, professionally built. Besides the bow sprit rusting out I’ve had a few bad spots redone.

Personally I think your budget says $80-$100k, your taste runs to $250k.

Below is where I think you have gotten greedy.

The pilot house is killer. It is nice in the Arctic, not necessary. But may be a huge liability in the tropic or just in summer, heat load.

I’m not getting the water tight bulkheads. Sure is nice but not necessary. You have already decided upon steel, but now thinking about glass? Bulkheads in a glass boat, not steel.

Ketch? More rigging to fail and maintain and to ice up.

Heating systems can be added, done it myself. And getting cheaper. A pain but not a show stopper.

What you have NOT included is:

Auto pilot/wind vane
Steering redundancy
Kero vs propane cooker (my greed LOL)

Ibetitsthisway · 05-11-2019, 09:26

Absolutely korrekt..
Pilot House is the killer.
And it is the number one prio!

I have done quite some travelliing in the past 30 years.
Long distance. Nature oriented. All kinds of vehicles. From bike... Tent.. Over convertible and rv to small and Big boats and from 45degrees celcius to minus 35 Celsius.

And very very many people did Not believe how fast wie trvaveled and how much adventurous andbeautiful it was in comparable short time.
And to me the key point is That we always cared a lot about basic protection from the elements.

From direct sunlight
From direct wind
From rain and spray
From cold

Noone needs Aircon or alike But you need perfectly adjustable shelter.
Thus a boat With Open cocpit plus soft top Plus heated pilot House is the answer to enjoy long distance travels to me.

And.. Yes!!.. Propane does Not belong into a boat or an rv

Kivalo · 05-11-2019, 09:26

Ice flow coming out of Dillingham AK at the mouth of the Wood River near Clark's Point, late December 2018 or early January2019.

Rumpi · 05-11-2019, 09:39

Ibetitsthisway, may I ask why you don't ditch the long keel ketch thing and buy a Reinke? It's about as close as you can get to a expedition yacht with your budget. Heating, searail, etc. can all be retrofitted. You could even make the pilothouse windows smaller if you wish.

Morgali · 05-11-2019, 10:14

I dont know if what I experienced is useful to you or not, but...

I was on a commercial fishing vessel, a 280 foot flat bottomed steel boat named the Deep Sea harvester, based in Seattle, WA but cruising back from the bearing sea and Aleutian Islands, alaska, with a hold full of salmon.

We were cruising making good time on the outside from Alaska to Puget sound, and struck a deadhead. I'll never forget it. It sounded like the hull was tearing apart, even though it didn't penetrate. The entire ship shuddered and rocked, and a prop hit the deadhead as it went by. It ruined the prop, and we had to replace it once we were in port, and run the remainder of the way without that engine.

Just from that experience alone, I wouldn't even think of it in a plastic boat. If we'd been doing 8 or 10 knots in plastic and hit that, we would have certainly sank.

this is the remains of the Deep Sea Harvester now.
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...511000?lang=en

Ibetitsthisway · 05-11-2019, 11:18

Yep. Same Thing i Heard from the two Austrian ice travelers.
They Hit a deadhead With their steel boat and THOUGHT it Would sink... Only from the sounding in the boat.

Two weeks later it happened to a Fiberglas boat of friends of theirs which sank weithin 10 minutes!

Ibetitsthisway · 05-11-2019, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumpi

Ibetitsthisway, may I ask why you don't ditch the long keel ketch thing and buy a Reinke? It's about as close as you can get to a expedition yacht with your budget. Heating, searail, etc. can all be retrofitted. You could even make the pilothouse windows smaller if you wish.

Well... First Impulse to answer the qustion is of course: stupid questions.. If i start ditching checkboxes i can buy whatever boat...

Second Impulse: Yes... Maybe it is smart to go for the top prios and compromise on Features which can be discussed controversly anyway...

BUT there are many many many technical Things to be evaluated.. And I LOVE evaluating on technical pros and cons... But there is also the emotional aspect. In my case.. I love ships. I mean ships. Not boats. I like sma and fast or slow and "shippish".
The larger and the more commercial the better.

Thats why i like the fishers That much. I belong to the 1% people who Fall for them.
And steel...long keel... Two masts.. Add to my fantasy of a "Ship"
I Would love to go With a 30m trawler... But... Out of Budget.

I just dont like the Look of reinke That much..and compromizing on Features... To compromize on looks... Just because of money?

... Nonono.... Does Not feel right...

Wayne hoath · 05-11-2019, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway

Well... First Impulse to answer the qustion is of course: stupid questions.. If i start ditching checkboxes i can buy whatever boat...

Second Impulse: Yes... Maybe it is smart to go for the top prios and compromise on Features which can be discussed controversly anyway...

BUT there are many many many technical Things to be evaluated.. And I LOVE evaluating on technical pros and cons... But there is also the emotional aspect. In my case.. I love ships. I mean ships. Not boats. I like sma and fast or slow and "shippish".

The larger and the more commercial the better.

Thats why i like the fishers That much. I belong to the 1% people who Fall for them.

And steel...long keel... Two masts.. Add to my fantasy of a "Ship"

I Would love to go With a 30m trawler... But... Out of Budget.

I just dont like the Look of reinke That much..and compromizing on Features... To compromize on looks... Just because of money?

... Nonono.... Does Not feel right...

Then get a Fisher....and just do everything else you planned with the exception of the ice.

KTP · 05-11-2019, 12:53

What about this "Iron Lady" 1989 63' sailboat in Blaine, WA? I have walked by her when she was not for sale and thought...wow that is a LOT more room than my PSC34.

All steel.

63 feet though....

Edit: reduced on craigslist to $185,000

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...011070393.html

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...utter-3242590/

**Jim Cate** · 05-11-2019, 13:18

Mate, you are confronted with the same issue that affects most of us mortals: contrast between budget and desires. And you will have to do what all of us end up doing: compromise on one or the other of those factors.

IMO it is a waste of time and energy to be looking for that once in a lifetime bargain... the ideal boat that is for some reason being sold for way below its value. You will become old and bitter sooner than you think!

I know that's not what you want to hear, but it is a lesson that most of us who are actually long term cruisers have had to learn... and ya know what? We're having and have had a great life cruising in boats that are not a perfect match to what we wanted when we set out. And ya know what else? Our plans and desires have changed (a lot) since we started out, so that what we just KNEW would be right for us in reality isn't!

If your budget is fixed, then the only way to get out and cruise is to start compromising on your requirements... or spend years looking for that unicorn and then die or become incapable of cruising before casting off the lines and realizing the dream.

Your choice...

Jim

IslandHopper · 05-11-2019, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTP

What about this "Iron Lady" 1989 63' sailboat in Blaine, WA? I have walked by her when she was not for sale and thought...wow that is a LOT more room than my PSC34.

All steel.

63 feet though....

Edit: reduced on craigslist to $185,000

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...011070393.html

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...utter-3242590/

If i was to be banging around in the ice i would want to be doing it in something like this, nice find.....