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Old 03-12-2020, 14:05   #1
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Interior rebuild: what program is best?

Hello!

I'm currently helping a friend of mine gut and rebuild a Bruce Roberts 44'

the interior has mostly been gutted and we are hoping to improve its layout.

Does anyone have a recommended software for creating a 3D mock up of an interior? My first guess would be google sketch up but if anyone has suggestions i'd be happy to hear them!

Or if anyone has any suggestions/features that they've found invaluable in their interior feel free to shoot em at me as well!

thanks in advance!
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Old 03-12-2020, 22:34   #2
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Re: Interior rebuild: what program is best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfirstmate View Post
Hello!

I'm currently helping a friend of mine gut and rebuild a Bruce Roberts 44'

the interior has mostly been gutted and we are hoping to improve its layout.

Does anyone have a recommended software for creating a 3D mock up of an interior? My first guess would be google sketch up but if anyone has suggestions i'd be happy to hear them!

Or if anyone has any suggestions/features that they've found invaluable in their interior feel free to shoot em at me as well!

thanks in advance!

Google Sketchup works pretty well and easier in my opinion to start using than say auto cad. Less features but easier for general modeling and basic rendering. Honestly though some grid paper and a few sharp pencils and doing things to scale works too. Although your boat is much bigger than ours.



We spent a significant amount of time adding additional storage and accessing dead space. Tried to be smart about how we used every bit of space ( a 29 foot boat). We almost took on an ericson independence that was completely gutted. We planned to build in two small quarter birth cabins aft and a nice v birth. We ended up finding what we have now and absolutely love her. Added in two new hatches (lewmar ocean) and made every dead light an opening portlight.



Its a fun thing your doing, you get to make it whatever you want. Anyway, post photos and good luck!
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Old 04-12-2020, 02:38   #3
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Re: Interior rebuild: what program is best?

Perhaps read or reach out to Spot re his 1970's Refit Thread (see below). He has been using a design program of some sort (VERY successfully):

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ns-236747.html

Good luck!
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Old 04-12-2020, 06:16   #4
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Re: Interior rebuild: what program is best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleWing77 View Post
Perhaps read or reach out to Spot re his 1970's Refit Thread (see below). He has been using a design program of some sort (VERY successfully):

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ns-236747.html

Good luck!
LittleWing77

Thanks for the compliment Littlewing77!

I use Autodesk Fusion360 for the 3D renderings and the 2D drawings with multiple views. https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal
I am an Autodesk user in my day job so there was a minimal learning curve and I have seen others pick it up quickly.

I do not have a scan or a complete 3D model for the boat, so the working CAD is just based on a few measurements and a couple assumptions.

What is working well for me is to use Fusion360 to get a basic idea of the look and plan and then to make 'real' patterns directly from the curves in the boat. Trimmed paper or cardboard and hot melt glue work well and help me account for the small differences between port and starboard of my 1970's owner-finished hull.
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Old 04-12-2020, 10:39   #5
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Re: Interior rebuild: what program is best?

A second vote for Fusion 360. Mostly you'll only need the basics, which can be learned pretty quick. (there IS a learning curve!)

The best free tutorials I know about are here:
https://academy.titansofcnc.com/

It's more focused on milling, but all the concepts are the same. They start at the beginner, not assuming previous knowledge.
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Old 04-12-2020, 11:06   #6
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Re: Interior rebuild: what program is best?

A decent drawing will definitely save a bunch of time and make the job much easier. Ideally start from the boats line drawings but then check they match reality. If the boat was yard build as part of a production run it is likely they will match. With older boats and smaller runs there may have been changes that where not updated on the design plans. Manufacturer and/or designer should be able to supply copies but may charge. The added bonus is that this should also give you calculations for things like rigging loads,center of effort and load. If you are altering things like battery position and bulkheads this is going to be useful to ensure there are no complications to performance but it depends how much you are changing and how sensitive the design is to things like weight changes. My recommendation for a good CADprogram is to use Linux OS and Libra CAD. Means a bit of a learning curve but it is a full spec 2D cad program that is free. Working with Linux also gives you access to other useful free programs for everything from navigation to sail design. I have tried 3D CAD but not found it useful. The simple programs don't seem accurate or detailed enough for more than rough layout and the full spec programs need so much input it does not seem worth it. Mind I am pretty good a visualizing designs in my head. My feeling was that 3D is more about selling ideas than building them!
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Old 04-12-2020, 11:11   #7
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Re: Interior rebuild: what program is best?

IMO, if you don't already know how to do CAD, learning it to do the layout of 1 boat is a huge waste of time. It will take at least several full time working days to model the boat and start building interior items. And moving stuff around is not necessarily all that easy, especially if you contoured things to the hull, then want to place it elsewhere.



Cut out some cardboard to scale of the boat, say 44 inches long for a 12:1 and put bulkheads, engine, and other non-movables in place. mark where there is head room to stand as well, in other words, the limits of the cabin sole joins with seats or other items. You will of course need to take some measurements off the boat to do this.



Then cut out scale size people, appliances, sink, stove, bunks, table, head, etc. You can move the pieces around freely to change the layout. It is a great visual, better than on-screen CAD, and will be much quicker by days than learning CAD and modeling the boat.... Unless you have a goal to learn CAD..? BTW, the CAD model will not work for actually making the cuts of wood unless you use some good photogrametry, laser scanner or other methods to model the hull accurately.
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:41   #8
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Re: Interior rebuild: what program is best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot View Post
Thanks for the compliment Littlewing77!

I use Autodesk Fusion360 for the 3D renderings and the 2D drawings with multiple views. https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal
I am an Autodesk user in my day job so there was a minimal learning curve and I have seen others pick it up quickly.

I do not have a scan or a complete 3D model for the boat, so the working CAD is just based on a few measurements and a couple assumptions.

What is working well for me is to use Fusion360 to get a basic idea of the look and plan and then to make 'real' patterns directly from the curves in the boat. Trimmed paper or cardboard and hot melt glue work well and help me account for the small differences between port and starboard of my 1970's owner-finished hull.
Those look amazing! definitely seems like using CAD for the concept and then making the real measurements after will be the way to go, thanks so much!
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:41   #9
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Re: Interior rebuild: what program is best?

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Originally Posted by kayakerChuck View Post
A second vote for Fusion 360. Mostly you'll only need the basics, which can be learned pretty quick. (there IS a learning curve!)

The best free tutorials I know about are here:
https://academy.titansofcnc.com/

It's more focused on milling, but all the concepts are the same. They start at the beginner, not assuming previous knowledge.
Fusion seems like the route i'll be taking! thank you!
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:45   #10
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Re: Interior rebuild: what program is best?

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Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
A decent drawing will definitely save a bunch of time and make the job much easier. Ideally start from the boats line drawings but then check they match reality. If the boat was yard build as part of a production run it is likely they will match. With older boats and smaller runs there may have been changes that where not updated on the design plans. Manufacturer and/or designer should be able to supply copies but may charge. The added bonus is that this should also give you calculations for things like rigging loads,center of effort and load. If you are altering things like battery position and bulkheads this is going to be useful to ensure there are no complications to performance but it depends how much you are changing and how sensitive the design is to things like weight changes. My recommendation for a good CADprogram is to use Linux OS and Libra CAD. Means a bit of a learning curve but it is a full spec 2D cad program that is free. Working with Linux also gives you access to other useful free programs for everything from navigation to sail design. I have tried 3D CAD but not found it useful. The simple programs don't seem accurate or detailed enough for more than rough layout and the full spec programs need so much input it does not seem worth it. Mind I am pretty good a visualizing designs in my head. My feeling was that 3D is more about selling ideas than building them!
Boat has a bit of a history so I think it'd be a real struggle to find design plans, but we are unlikely to change any major weight changes in terms of bulkheads,water tanks, etc..
I'm not sure I want to run a whole new OS for this, but maybe i'll give linux a try anyway! but I do like the 2D only Idea, thanks!
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:48   #11
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Re: Interior rebuild: what program is best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zstine View Post
IMO, if you don't already know how to do CAD, learning it to do the layout of 1 boat is a huge waste of time. It will take at least several full time working days to model the boat and start building interior items. And moving stuff around is not necessarily all that easy, especially if you contoured things to the hull, then want to place it elsewhere.



Cut out some cardboard to scale of the boat, say 44 inches long for a 12:1 and put bulkheads, engine, and other non-movables in place. mark where there is head room to stand as well, in other words, the limits of the cabin sole joins with seats or other items. You will of course need to take some measurements off the boat to do this.



Then cut out scale size people, appliances, sink, stove, bunks, table, head, etc. You can move the pieces around freely to change the layout. It is a great visual, better than on-screen CAD, and will be much quicker by days than learning CAD and modeling the boat.... Unless you have a goal to learn CAD..? BTW, the CAD model will not work for actually making the cuts of wood unless you use some good photogrametry, laser scanner or other methods to model the hull accurately.
Definitely a time consumer, but we are limited in what we can do once we are snowed in, so I figured modelling it in CAD could be a fun way to get an idea of what it will look like. I think the paper/cardboard method would be a good way to realize what i want for the 3d model

I for sure will not be trying to base any cuts off of the model though! thanks!
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