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17-09-2020, 19:26
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ontario
Boat: C&C 30 Mk I
Posts: 154
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Var Korall
You got pretty close. No ID numbers on transom?
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Alas, nothing on the hull or stern at all. The ID number I quoted was hanging on a plaque on a lifeline. (To be honest, I didn't look for HINs etc because really thought that I'd plug "ketch, full keel, under 31'" etc into the internet and find it inside of one cup of coffee's worth of browsing.)
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17-09-2020, 19:37
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ontario
Boat: C&C 30 Mk I
Posts: 154
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounty2
The boat in question is a Bounty 2, designed by Philip Rhodes in about 1957.
Said to be the first over 40' yacht to be built from plastic ( Fiberglass)
I own "Tess" also a Bounty 2 rests in New Zealand. Built in California by Aero Marine Plastics. Upto a couple of years ago Bounty's were rated in the top 100 ocean going boats in their class.
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There sure are similarities! I checked out your pics, other Bounty II pics, and the video I could find on Youtube. Lovely boat, and I'd be proud to have one.
But as the others have noticed, the Bounty II is a massively bigger boat than this mystery boat. Also, the rudder, windows, transom, are significantly different as well.
I think that we're having a "form follows function" issue. This boat is like so many other boats because they were built for the same thing, rough water. The fact that this one is, however, so short makes me suspect an Ontario company in the sense that it was designed as a 'rough water lake boat' for use on the Great Lakes. (The fact that knowledgeable people from around the world can't ID it via this thread makes me further suspect a local regional source.)
One good thing about the mystery: I can call the marina and honestly tell them that literally people from all across the globe want to know what boat that is. Maybe that'll tickle them enough to punch a couple of buttons and tell me what their paperwork says.
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17-09-2020, 19:50
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#48
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C.
Boat: Wauquiez Centurion 32
Posts: 2,874
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy_Y
I think that we're have a "form follows function" issue. This boat is like so many other boats because they were built for the same thing, rough water. The fact that this one is, however, so short makes me suspect an Ontario company in the sense that it was designed as a 'rough water lake boat' for use on the Great Lakes.
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I doubt it was designed as a "rough water lake boat". Throughout the 50's, 60's and 70's boats with similar profiles were designed by dozens of designers around the world.
examples: Spencer 35, Alberg 30, 35, and 37, Pearson Triton, UK boats like the Elizabethan 33, Barbican 30 and 35, and many others.
Are you sure it is fiberglass?
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18-09-2020, 02:17
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Wanganui, New Zealand. Finike, Turkey
Boat: Gazelle, 25ft. Ganley 44ft
Posts: 19
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Hi, Try Eric Cox. Very similar designs in the 1950s and 1960s
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18-09-2020, 08:29
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ontario
Boat: C&C 30 Mk I
Posts: 154
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckie
Hi, Try Eric Cox. Very similar designs in the 1950s and 1960s
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I googled Eric Cox after reading this. Sure enough, very similar! But the mystery has now been solved. (See my next post.)
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18-09-2020, 08:49
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ontario
Boat: C&C 30 Mk I
Posts: 154
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Answer Time!
I called the marina and told them people all over the world were interested in knowing what the model of the mystery boat was. The clerk (the same I dealt with earlier) clicked a few buttons and said, "It's a Samson ketch." I thanked her profusely and mentioned that the possibility had already been discussed, but that Samson Ketches were usually bigger; then I asked how long the boat was (info that any marina has for billing). Her reply: "I already closed the program. Bye."
So, Samson ketch it is. I just googled for a minute or two, and I see that Samson has quite a few models out there -- not easy to lock down what this exact one is. Apparently, quite a few Samsons were homemade boats, so this one could be someone's backyard opus.
Congrats to PCMM, who picked her for a possible Samson!
Also, I'm embarrassed to say that, after Mitiempo asked if I was sure it was fiberglass, it occurred to me that I just examined her visually and assumed she was. I now see that Samsons were often made using ferro. Now, I'm not sure.
I asked the marina office martyr to also pass my phone number along to the owner (not just my email, which I left earlier). If the owner gets in touch with me with any interesting tidbits, I'll pass them along.
Thanks for all the advice everyone!
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18-09-2020, 09:09
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Whitby, Canada
Boat: Morgan Out Island 41
Posts: 2,251
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy_Y
Answer Time!
I called the marina and told them people all over the world were interested in knowing what the model of the mystery boat was. The clerk (the same I dealt with earlier) clicked a few buttons and said, "It's a Samson ketch." I thanked her profusely and mentioned that the possibility had already been discussed, but that Samson Ketches were usually bigger; then I asked how long the boat was (info that any marina has for billing). Her reply: "I already closed the program. Bye."
So, Samson ketch it is. I just googled for a minute or two, and I see that Samson has quite a few models out there -- not easy to lock down what this exact one is. Apparently, quite a few Samsons were homemade boats, so this one could be someone's backyard opus.
Congrats to PCMM, who picked her for a possible Samson!
Also, I'm embarrassed to say that, after Mitiempo asked if I was sure it was fiberglass, it occurred to me that I just examined her visually and assumed she was. I now see that Samsons were often made using ferro. Now, I'm not sure.
I asked the marina office martyr to also pass my phone number along to the owner (not just my email, which I left earlier). If the owner gets in touch with me with any interesting tidbits, I'll pass them along.
Thanks for all the advice everyone!
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Keep in mind that id it is a Samson, Its ferrocement!!! good for buying cheap, but typically hard to sell later!
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18-09-2020, 09:43
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 222
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Samson gallery page 2 Lady Rose looks similar?
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18-09-2020, 10:20
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ontario
Boat: C&C 30 Mk I
Posts: 154
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateFoxy
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Certainly does. This other thread's list of Samsons is:
46' C Breeze - 20 T
40' CSmoke - 12 T
39' C Farer - 13.4 T
37' C Bird - 10.1 T
36' C Shell - 9.8 T
34' C Spray - 8.9 T
32' C Mist - 9.3 T
30' C Imp - 4.9 T
Based on length, it's likely an Imp or Mist, I suppose.
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18-09-2020, 14:21
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#55
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C.
Boat: Wauquiez Centurion 32
Posts: 2,874
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Also, I'm embarrassed to say that, after Mitiempo asked if I was sure it was fiberglass, it occurred to me that I just examined her visually and assumed she was. I now see that Samsons were often made using ferro. Now, I'm not sure.
All Samson boats were ferro-cement. John Samson was the world's most prominent proponent of ferro-cement construction. Designed most likely by Cece Norris, John's designer.
Decades ago - early 70's - I used to visit and watch the boats being built in Richmond B.C. One was Jubilee, 46' I recall, for singer Glen Yarborough.
Looked like a Samson boat - that's why I asked if you were sure it was fiberglass.
ps In retrospect ferro-cement is best used for in ground swimming pools.
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18-09-2020, 15:50
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: cruising / rv
Boat: 1969 Columbia28, 1984/2016 Horstman TriStar36
Posts: 705
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Nah!
Looks like a bruce roberts design.
Look on sailboat data at a columbia28, this mystery boat is longer than 28 ft.
__________________
There ya go, and when ya got there, there ya are !
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18-09-2020, 15:58
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: cruising / rv
Boat: 1969 Columbia28, 1984/2016 Horstman TriStar36
Posts: 705
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounty2
The boat in question is a Bounty 2, designed by Philip Rhodes in about 1957.
Said to be the first over 40' yacht to be built from plastic ( Fiberglass)
I own "Tess" also a Bounty 2 rests in New Zealand. Built in California by Aero Marine Plastics. Upto a couple of years ago Bounty's were rated in the top 100 ocean going boats in their class.
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Hey man ,
How about a photo of your boat ?
Please ?
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18-09-2020, 16:42
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 147
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Is that a placard or nameplate on the lifelines near the bow?
Is there a SN# embossed in the fiberglass on the transom?
The first 3 letters may be abbreviations for the manufacturer.
Next time your there. Throw a message in a bottle into the cockpit.
Complimenting someones boat & admitting your own humility will get a greater likelihood of response.
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18-09-2020, 17:17
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ontario
Boat: C&C 30 Mk I
Posts: 154
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
Just to reiterate for the people still guessing at the model or suggesting ways to find out: mystery is solved, she's a Samson ketch.
Since it appears she's ferro, me and my foolish heart are going to limp onward. (I don't want to reignite the eternal 'ferro: good or not?' debate here, but I don't see me buying ferro except in the rare circumstance that the boat is amazingly well kept, an amazing design, and amazingly low priced.)
Last winter, I promised myself that if I didn't find a good lady here in Canada by this spring, I would head south to the US market for its vastly bigger selection and better prices (even with the exchange rate). Then somebody in Wuhan started coughing.
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18-09-2020, 22:07
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 147
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Re: Identifying a mystery boat
It has been confirmed it is a 36' Samson C Shell.
I was considering it last year, when it was for sale here in Southern Ontario. Here is where it gets interesting.
At the same time a "unique" 40 Hughes Center Cockpit also came available for sale. It is still for sale... https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details...dId=1454303516 Unique because the Hughes hull with deck attached was BRAND New as in never been built. No paint, no wood no hardware etc etc. A blank canvass. It had been hauled out of the manufacturers shop before the Bailiffs locked everything up. I contemplated building the Hughes with the Samson 36 as a donor vessel. But, I was uncertain as to whether it would have been registered as a "New" 2020 Hughes 40 CC or what. If it was going to be a new 2020 "Retro" Boat I didn't want to use old & used parts & equipment. I would have to build with "new" or even with NOS (New Old Stock) parts & equipment. The corollary would also imply if it was a "New" old boat. Then it was a lot of work & expense to make a 1980's vintage 40' Hughes of the same value as a 1980's used 40 ft Hughes sailboat today. What would be the value of a NOS 40' Hughes CC today?
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