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Old 26-07-2022, 12:44   #1
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Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

So window shopping as one does for retirement, and it seems like the used Hylas prices have gone up. Looks like the average 46' Hylas is more than the comparable 46' Hallberg Rassy, and they are pushing close to the price of an Amel 54. Is this just sellers wishful thinking trying to take advantage of the current market? Most of the Hylas are here in the US so maybe our inflation is hitting them harder?

While Hylas are good boats I was under the impression they weren't quite the level of the other two, but I could definitely be wrong there.

Also, for people shopping under 200,000 the Hylas 45.5 seems to be a lot of boat for the money for a cruising couple. I would love to hear anyone with first hand knowledge of that boat.
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Old 26-07-2022, 13:24   #2
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

The supply of all these boats on the market is EXTREMELY tight right now. You are drawing comparisons from a very, very small data set, and that is always dangerous.

I am very plugged into the market for Amel boats, and I can tell you most of them the decent boats on the market in the last 18 months have sold privately. The boats listed by brokers recently are the “problem children,” neglected, poorly treated and in serious need of a LOT of TLC and $$$$$ to bring them back to standard.

The private sales of the real quality boats are happening at a significant premium over the asking prices for the brokerage boats. Most Amel owners know of at least one or two people trying to elbow their way in line for the better boats, some have been looking for years. I strongly suspect the same is true of Hylas and HR.

If you are not motivated to get connections into the communities of owners, you are going to have a very hard time right now finding a well maintained boat of this class.
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Old 26-07-2022, 13:40   #3
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

Thanks for the info, I'm 5 years out so definitely just casual browsing. Just seemed odd the price differences. When I get closer I'll probably higher a buyers broker, Id like to see what the boats comps/sold are vs. what people are asking.

And thanks for the private sale tip. You can't really tell much from an online add. 20 year old rig 15 year old sails, but listed as Bristol condition?.?.? I'm sure once I start digging it will get challenging.
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Old 26-07-2022, 13:58   #4
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

There are a lot of older boats out here with deferred maintenance, walking the boat yards is a bit depressing. Down here in Trinidad is an Amel 54, maybe a 2000, has plants growing from the deck. Certainly covid has stopped some from visiting and using the boat but there are people you can hire to oversee your boat or you could have it covered to protect the deck from the elements.
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Old 26-07-2022, 13:59   #5
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

Yeah that's a shame
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Old 26-07-2022, 14:15   #6
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

There is a serious downside to using a buyer broker that nobody here seems to understand, or admit.

There are brokers who are very picky in the boats they list for sale (yes, there REALLY are). Because they are listing premium boats in a tight market they have ZERO incentive to cut their commission in half by dealing with a buyer’s broker. One broker I know has a list of serious buyers equal to well over 2 years of his incoming supply. He sells boats in weeks, not months or years. He is not at all interested is sharing his cut of the deal, and why should he? Buyer’s brokers do nothing to make the deal go better or faster as far as he is concerned, rather they frequently just muck up the works.

The brokers MOST interested in dealing with buyer’s brokers are those who are having the toughest time selling the boats they have. Exactly the kind of selling broker you want to AVOID!

Working with a buyer’s broker takes MANY of the premium boats off the table for you, and you will never even know it.

Also, do not be fooled, the financial incentive for the buyer’s broker is NOT to get you the best deal, or the best boat, but to get you to buy a boat AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. That way he can collect his commission and move on to the next customer.

Many people here are buying cheap boats, from brokers who sell cheap boats, and are sleaze balls. The advice they give might be good for the part of the market they are shopping. When you get to the premium part of the market (where you are shopping) you can deal with seller’s brokers who have good reputations, and repeat customers, and are honest and straight dealing business people. They are NOT all like that, but there are good guys out there.
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Old 27-07-2022, 06:57   #7
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

I owned a Hylas 44, and now have a Hylas 49, so I am biased!

The 45.5 is a 44 with a sugar scoop bolted on. If you can find one that it well maintained it will be an awesome boat!
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Old 27-07-2022, 10:59   #8
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

thanks,
that was what I was thinking, plenty of room for two but with the scoop added easy in and out of the dinghy.

Also looking at the Moody 46 or 47 as a similar option of good value for the dollar.
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Old 28-07-2022, 07:42   #9
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

also looking at the moody 41 ac as an alternative to something like a pacific sea craft 40. Simple solo sailor type situation. I think the quality is as good or better, it probably sails better and doesn't have that canoe stern. I like the look of the canoe stern but I don't think it would be very practical.
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Old 28-07-2022, 08:04   #10
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

Check out this one-

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/199...uiser-8263746/

Ta Shing also made Mason line and Norseman. Now only make Nordhavens.

This one sold last year-

https://www.californiayachtsales.com...swell-43/1252/
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Old 28-07-2022, 08:10   #11
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

Nice, and I would think solves the 40' purchase range better tha the PS or the Valiant.
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Old 28-07-2022, 08:16   #12
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOffice View Post
I owned a Hylas 44, and now have a Hylas 49, so I am biased!

!
The H 49 is my second favorite boat. Years ago, we sailed one across the Pacific and I can’t imagine a better boat for that trip. Plus it’s beautiful.
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Old 28-07-2022, 08:59   #13
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

I agree, and I think they sail better than the typical heavy cruiser. The 49's seem to have really gone up in the past couple of years. I think the secrets out on them in the used market.
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Old 29-07-2022, 16:14   #14
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

Check out this video of a couple on their Taswell 43.

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Old 29-07-2022, 18:16   #15
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Re: Hylas, Amel, Hallberg Rassy revisit

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItDepends View Post
The supply of all these boats on the market is EXTREMELY tight right now. You are drawing comparisons from a very, very small data set, and that is always dangerous.

I am very plugged into the market for Amel boats, and I can tell you most of them the decent boats on the market in the last 18 months have sold privately. The boats listed by brokers recently are the “problem children,” neglected, poorly treated and in serious need of a LOT of TLC and $$$$$ to bring them back to standard.

The private sales of the real quality boats are happening at a significant premium over the asking prices for the brokerage boats. Most Amel owners know of at least one or two people trying to elbow their way in line for the better boats, some have been looking for years. I strongly suspect the same is true of Hylas and HR.

If you are not motivated to get connections into the communities of owners, you are going to have a very hard time right now finding a well maintained boat of this class.
I don’t agree. The market here around me for high end yachts is definitely “ soft “ with selling prices significantly lower then asking , my friend just bought a fine example of a Discovery Yacht at a significant discount over asking. Nor do I accept that private sales in these niche brands are selling privately and not through brokers , there is evidence of the opposite. If you reach a larger market of buyers, you get a better price and that’s typically done through established brokerages.

Cash buyers in the larger more expensive boat brands are getting rarer and sellers are getting more motivated as the recessionary trends build. I’d expect extremely good deals in higher priced brands in the coming period. Of course the selection will shrink as sellers withdraw boats , ie those that don’t need to sell
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