Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

Well, that is simply my OPINION, informed by my experience... You, or anyone else, is free to disagree, of course...

I happen to believe that the potential for compromising the structure of the foredeck and stem of a yacht intended for passagemaking by replacing a significant portion of said foredeck with a non-structural removable lid is a poor bit of design and engineering... As always, others are free to disagree, or believe what they wish to believe...

Excellent use of a photo to made a claim on something completely different that what you trying to argue!!!!!

Since I remember that photo and the story. An idiot who happens to own a Hunter ignores hurricane warnings and last minute decides to try to out run it. Doesn't make it so drops anchor in exposed location. Anchor chain proceeds to saw the bow of the boat off................. Must be a Hunter design problem

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Excellent use of a photo to made a claim on something completely different that what you trying to argue!!!!!

Since I remember that photo and the story. An idiot who happens to own a Hunter ignores hurricane warnings and last minute decides to try to out run it. Doesn't make it so drops anchor in exposed location. Anchor chain proceeds to saw the bow of the boat off................. Must be a Hunter design problem

Actually if you take a real good look at how far Hunter cantilevers its anchor roller and the weight of the material they use in my eyes I could easily see the whole thing being ripped off under load. A good offshore boat needs a very strong anchoring system. I have seen a couple of other non Hunter boats with the same results on our cruise through the South Pacific and actually helped one guy by using my zip cutter to re!move his so he could anchor his boat and this was on an expensive cruiser.

[downunder]

Strength and integrity of the anchoring system is at the heart of and seaworthy bluewater cruising vessel. A key system.

Whether it be the anchor/rode/winch or the strength of the mountings of the system and it seems some are not up to scratch and older vessels may need maintaince.

[sailorboy1]

Wow now people are trying to say if a boat can not anchor out exposed during Hurricane Sandy it must be a design build problem.

You guys are just unbelievable.

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Why don't you tell the rest of the story on the above, Jon? I'll wait.

The rest of the story?

What, you mean the part about the owner defecating in the back seat of a police car?

:-))

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Wow now people are trying to say if a boat can not anchor out exposed during Hurricane Sandy it must be a design build problem.

You guys are just unbelievable.

No reason to take it personally but you did hear the poster say that he dropped the anchor when the winds were 40 knots hardly hurricane wind speeds. We have had 40 knots wind speed at anchor several times. Anchoring systems on offshore yachts that are built to a high standard are not cheap and lets not kid ourselves... these entry level sailboats don't put very much money into robust anchoring systems, none of them.

[sailorboy1]

Unbelievable! Another great example of taking a internet post as fact if you don't know the story.

Don't you guys have anything to do useful to the forum? Is all you can do is search for things to trash something even if you have to twist the real facts? You really feel this is making you look like knowledge people with useful advise to anyone other than another hater?

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Wow now people are trying to say if a boat can not anchor out exposed during Hurricane Sandy it must be a design build problem.

You guys are just unbelievable.

No one is saying that... And, it was Hurricane Irene, actually... The center of which was nowhere near Hampton Roads when this incident occurred, as mentioned previously the sustained winds had not yet reached gale force by the time the damage was done...

If you prefer to ignore what the pics reveal about the boat's constuction in the vicinity of the stem, fine... Looked pretty light to my eye, but what do I know? :-)

Too bad a more detailed and illustrative gallery of images published at the time is no longer online... Anyone subscribed to The Wayback Machine might try plugging this link in:

http://www.sailcheers.com/The%20one%...get%20away.htm

[robert sailor]

Actually this would make a good thread for Smack to work on. He could find pictures of all the entry level boats and their anchoring systems and then compare them with some "Blue water" boats and we could all learn something. He is the only guy that has the time and energy to do this job and I think it would be a great project. PS I already know there is another place they use fender washers!

[Greatketch33]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Actually this would make a good thread for Smack to work on. He could find pictures of all the entry level boats and their anchoring systems and then compare them with some "Blue water" boats and we could all learn something. He is the only guy that has the time and energy to do this job and I think it would be a great project. PS I already know there is another place they use fender washers!

Speaking of fender washers; has there been any studies on which washers are the best? I can't recall if PS ever did a comparison test. Hmmmm???

[GeoPowers]

And to think I came here hoping to get some real info/cruiser's gouge on the Avalon storm...

[ryon]

Originally Posted by Greatketch33

Speaking of fender washers; has there been any studies on which washers are the best? I can't recall if PS ever did a comparison test. Hmmmm???

Fender washers! What's the matter with a little soap and some elbow grease? It doesn't really take much work at all to keep your fenders clean, why complicate your life with another whiz-bang contraption just for this one purpose? You have to buy it and store it, and keep it lubricated and maintained. Probably have to replace the brushes every once in a while too. And then there's the extension cord to dig out of the laz,.. I can think of a thousand reasons not to buy a fender washer at all. Especially if you have a sail boat! You're supposed to stow those ugly things after you leave the dock anyway, instead of leaving them flip-flapping from your rail, ugh! Even clean ones look like hell hung out there like you're some damn tugboat!

[weavis]

Originally Posted by ryon

Even clean ones look like hell hung out there like you're some damn tugboat!

In your opinion.
On my boat, they double the value

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

The rest of the story?

What, you mean the part about the owner defecating in the back seat of a police car?

:-))

That was definitely a very good part of the story...but, alas, no. The bottom line is you're not being completely honest about this incident (and resulting damage) - and the photos show it.

First, as to the "40-mile-per-hour wind"...that might be true as for when the whole thing started, but here is the photo of the actual rescue:



There is enough wind to shred the genny - and that sea-state is pretty damn nasty. Does that look like F7 to you?

Now, notice the anchor line running off to port? Look at what happens as the boat turns in the pounding surf - from the photo you posted:



Anchor roller is still attached, but as sailorboy pointed out, the other anchor chain has already sawed the hull apart in the surf and that other line to port is pulling the anchor roller off the boat.

Then you end up with this after many, many more hours beating in that surf - which was even worse that what was in that rescue photo above:



As you say, it was a very, very bad move by the skipper. The boat had nothing to do with this damage.

If anchoring off an exposed beach in a hurricane is how you think sailboats should be used - and, therefore, designed and built to that spec...you have the wrong boat yourself.

The good thing is, I can definitely see how Keno's anchoring experience on a Hunter could happen in this scenario.

You "blue water guys" - knock yourselves out. Just take video when you do it. I really want to watch.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by wgewaldii

Indeed the thread is well insulated from any facts that may be pertinent to the incident described in the first post. The loss of the boat would have required the filing of an incident report. Could be found here. https://cgmix.uscg.mil/iir

wgewaldii,

I tried to use the link, but couldn't get it to work. Thanks for trying to help.

Ann